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Thread: What to do when it goes wrong....

  1. #1
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    Default What to do when it goes wrong....

    So, down in the NE section, there's a tread about the events at the track. While that thread is about specific things, I thought a more general discussion might be in order.

    So, what do you do when you screw up? Or, what do you think SHOULD be done.

    Case in point, on an out lap in qualifying, I came up on a CRX with a gaggle of cars behind me. Typical deal, lots' of different speeds, and classes. Not wanting to slow others up mid corner, I eased out t move by him on the following straight. (Watkins Glen NASCAR straight returning from the boot section.) As I moved alongside, another car pulled out and began to pass me. Then ANOTHER Car made it 4 wide. By this point, I was even alongside the CRX, and the 4th guy startled the third guy who eased into me. We were close (4 WIDE!), and before I knew it, the steering wheel was wrenched from my hands hard right (the front of his front tire hit the back of mine, equaling instant one wheel braking), and I slammed into him, then bounced off him, and returned to hit the guardrail nice and hard. The car could move under it's own power so I dragged it off course to avoid the dreaded full course yellow/ probable end of session the Glen always does for any stopped car.

    The impact was enough to break a couple of my ribs, and the FR susp. was all bent, requiring the help of half a dozen guys, a porta power and lots of new parts for me to race the next day.

    But, before I even considered that, right after I convinced the ambulance that followed me to my paddock spot that there was nothing wrong with me, I went to find the CRX guy, and apologised profusely. At he time, I had no idea why it had happened, but regardless, his car was a mess. I offered to bring all my tools over, and help rebuild it, or to drive to stores getting whatever he needed. I offered cash. He was pissed, and thought I was a dolt. I think he tried to control himself, but it was clear he was steamed. He basically told me that I had wrecked his car, and that it would be best if I just went away. Fair enough.

    As i walked back, a friend who was behind during the incident me showed me the video, (thanks the stars for video!!!!) and it was clear that the third car moved into me. We went over and showed the CRX guy, who watched, nodded, and then turned to me and said it still sucked, but he was pleased I had gone over initially. We shook and left to lick our respective wounds.

    The third guy never approached either of us, had no real damage, and I was a bit irked.

    I felt like a complete ass right after the incident, but once it's done, it's done, and all I could do was try to help fix it.

    What's your standard on how you handle a screw up? How do you want someone to handle it if they screw your car up?

    In my eyes, if you cause, or are partially responsible for an incident, you should:

    -Seek the other guy out as soon as practical. If you can't, find a friend to get word to him somehow.

    - If it's determined that you blew it, offer what you can to make it right. If it means you don't race the next day, then that's the way it goes. If you can't do anything labor-wise, find someone who can for you, or pay someone. Do whatever you can to make sure the guy races the next day.

    - If the damage needs after event remediation, offer to help by calling in favors from your mechanic, bodyshop or whatever connections if it's convenient to the other guy.

    Now, if it's a racing deal, and you are both agree that blame is shared, lick wounds, shake hands, and get back out there. In that case, I think it's good sportsmanship for whoever is hurt most to get assistance from the other.

    In most cases, I think the mere fact that you made a sincere offer to help will mean more to the other guy than the actual help. In many cases the distance makes pitching in after the event impossible. But to me, it's better to go a bit overboard than it is to ignore the situation. This is of course, about club racing. Pro racing is a whole 'nuther deal!

    What to others think?
    Last edited by lateapex911; 07-15-2008 at 07:42 PM.
    Jake Gulick


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  2. #2
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    For me a discussion is priority one. Before I even take the suit off. It needs to be done immediately. If the guy's hot I'll deal with it. If I'm hot he'll deal with it.

    R
    Rob Breault
    BMW 328is #36
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bro View Post
    If I'm hot he'll deal with it.

    R
    LOL. I've witnessed that! When i nudged you in the bumper up the hill I thought, "Well, this is either going to be just fine, or just NOT fine!"

    That was a fun race.....
    Jake Gulick


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  4. #4
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    I agree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bro View Post
    For me a discussion is priority one. Before I even take the suit off. It needs to be done immediately. If the guy's hot I'll deal with it. If I'm hot he'll deal with it.

    R
    NC Region
    1980 ITS Triumph TR8

  5. #5
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    1st and most......calm down, a calm person will be mostly a rational person.
    2. make sure you get all the facts straight
    3. do not go over and stick your head in someones car and start screaming, you just my pull back a stump, and make sure it's the right person & car.
    4. approach the person and talk to them calmly. most rational people will talk it out rather than fight. offer to go over any video and talk to witnesses.
    If all of these don't work, remind them that payback just may be a medivac! ;~)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Bro View Post
    For me a discussion is priority one. Before I even take the suit off. It needs to be done immediately. If the guy's hot I'll deal with it. If I'm hot he'll deal with it.

    R
    That's right. Keep those Jack Handles away from Rob. Think we forgot?
    Crazy Joe
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  7. #7
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    i've been in a few incidents. sometimes with friends, sometimes with people i couldn't pick out of a two person lineup.

    the one time it was with a friend was my biggest wreck, and it was the last lap on sunday, for lead of the race. afterwards i asked if he was alright, and we helped each other load our cars on the trailer (it was sunday), and went home. even though i knew what happened, i didn't say anything, and he asked to see my video at a later time. afterwards he admitted fault, i told him not to worry, and that no matter whose fault it was i know it wasn't intentional or stupid move by either of us. that's racing. shit happens. we're still good friends to this day.

    another time when it was my fault (first lap, we both continued with a minor wrinkle), i walked over immediately after the race was over and apologized. "i thought i could get it slowed down in time, but i guess i was wrong." the contact was minor enough he didn't care in the least, but said he appreciated me coming over on my own.

    yet another time.......a guy was i felt blatantly blocking me all race. i had to start DFL that day, and couldn't make a pass stick on a VW with big power i normally outqualify by multiple seconds. i was pretty pissed about the blocking already, and then he turned down on me......at track out.....when i was on the inside. a left hand turn, we were tracking out, and i was on the left, and he turned in on me. that really set me off. i was so mad at the end of the race i knew it wouldn't be smart to go approach him even though i'd never met the guy. i walked straight to the stewards and filled out paper.

    so yeah, if you're really that mad, and it's JUSTIFIED, it's probably best to just file a protest instead of a personal confrontation.
    Last edited by tnord; 07-15-2008 at 08:21 PM.
    Travis Nordwald
    1996 ITA Miata
    KC Region

  8. #8
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    Travis you PO'd.........I can't imagine......

    I have been on both sides, and it is best to calm down and then talk. Most of my contact has required I calm down and then go talk to the wall in such and such Turn!
    So far the wall has been at fault every time!
    Mac Spikes
    Cresson, TX (Home of "The Original" MotorSport Ranch)
    "To hell with you Gen. Sheridan...I 'll take Texas!"

  9. #9
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    here is what not to do:

    trying to solve the problem by blowing up on a messageboard, the original poster is the dad of the driver that was hit

    http://www.calclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2854

  10. #10
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    I agree with most of it all except this:

    It needs to be done immediately. If the guy's hot I'll deal with it. If I'm hot he'll deal with it
    Make it known you want to talk to the guy, but if either side has any amount of hot headedness, admit that point and ask to have the discussion in a half hour. Its amazing how straight the facts can get w/ a little time, whereas all sorts of bad things happen when tempers are leading the charge.

    Where it is unknown why the incident happened, be clear that your side is your opinion but if someone else can prove otherwise you'll stand up for what ever comes your way.

    It is astounding to me how many times people will not come find you in the paddock.

    Matt

  11. #11
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    Does everyone know that we have "Driver Advisors?" They are stewards that are assigned to helping you resolve your problems and help if needed when deciding and/or when going through the protest process.

    If you have ANY issue at all and want to talk to a driver, I suggest getting the driver advisor first and using them to help you. If you prefer go visit the driver with the steward (you then have an official witness should an altercation occur) or ask them to page the driver to the tower and talk about the incident that happened. Let them be the "middleman" if needed to get your point across. At that point you can decide if you want to protest or not. If the person made a mistake it may also make them realize that the issue has been brought to the attention of others and that maybe they need to really think about their actions/driving habits.

    Raymond "It’s an interesting topic having been on all the sides... the victim, the aggressor, the advisor, and the steward" Blethen
    RST Performance Racing
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  12. #12
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    Default Whadduya Do ?

    I've been on both sides of the situation .
    One particular race I had the oppourtunity to race a friends GTL Mini Cooper .
    I had qualified on the outside row in position 4 right next to a Panoz .
    This was a closed wheel Co-Driver race at Waterford Hills .
    First lap going into turn 2 the back end of the mini steps out drivers right , I get it corrected and the panoz and I are still side by side . This little tail wiggle was apparentlt enough to sppok the Panoz driver as as I recall and as the video showed she took an evasive manuver to her right or inside of the track untill the curbing was coming up and she needed more track .
    Long story short her left front into the mini's right rear sent me around and I was hit in the right rear tire quarter panel by a 1967 Chevy Corvair . :eek: Yea , hard hit . OUCH .
    Yup I felt like a huge chump for crashing out a friends car .
    It wasn't untill after the car was towed into the pits that we discovered someone behind us had video .
    I helped fix the mini untill about 12:30 in the morning and the next day she told me I hadn't had enough time in the car and offered me the car for the feature race .
    By the way the Panoz driver never even came to see if I was ok . After I cooled down I went to talk to her and she denied even getting into the corner of my car .
    Her and her husband are now racing the panoz in a "Pro" series .

    There are more to tell but I've gone on long enough .
    Moral of the story is , even if your a little unsure of the situation always go and offer some sort of condolence . A plastic trophy just isn't worth the aggravation .
    Todd Robbins. [email protected]

  13. #13
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    I agree that as a driver at fault it is imperative to go through the full regimen you suggest.

    I have been the 'hitter' because of a bonehead optimistic move and offered to da all of the above and pay for the new door the other car needed.

    I have been hit and taken out in qualifying and had the other driver (who took out another car in the same move) tell the two of us to piss-off. We went to the stewards who promised to watch him. They did as he destroyed another car as well as his, in the race. I don't think he's been back since....

    We all must take care of each other out there and be responsible for our actions when things go wrong.

    DZ


    Quote Originally Posted by lateapex911 View Post

    What's your standard on how you handle a screw up? How do you want someone to handle it if they screw your car up?

    In my eyes, if you cause, or are partially responsible for an incident, you should:

    -Seek the other guy out as soon as practical. If you can't, find a friend to get word to him somehow.

    - If it's determined that you blew it, offer what you can to make it right. If it means you don't race the next day, then that's the way it goes. If you can't do anything labor-wise, find someone who can for you, or pay someone. Do whatever you can to make sure the guy races the next day.

    - If the damage needs after event remediation, offer to help by calling in favors from your mechanic, bodyshop or whatever connections if it's convenient to the other guy.

    Now, if it's a racing deal, and you are both agree that blame is shared, lick wounds, shake hands, and get back out there. In that case, I think it's good sportsmanship for whoever is hurt most to get assistance from the other.

    In most cases, I think the mere fact that you made a sincere offer to help will mean more to the other guy than the actual help. In many cases the distance makes pitching in after the event impossible. But to me, it's better to go a bit overboard than it is to ignore the situation. This is of course, about club racing. Pro racing is a whole 'nuther deal!

    What to others think?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSTPerformance View Post
    Does everyone know that we have "Driver Advisors?" They are stewards that are assigned to helping you resolve your problems and help if needed when deciding and/or when going through the protest process.


    Not all regions/divisions have driver advisors.

    In (5) years of racing, I have yet to make contact with another car on course. Of course, now that I said that...
    "Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win.” - Bobby Knight

    Bill
    Planet 6 Racing

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    Quote Originally Posted by planet6racing View Post
    Not all regions/divisions have driver advisors.

    In (5) years of racing, I have yet to make contact with another car on course. Of course, now that I said that...
    And that includes racing without a steering wheel.
    Gregg Baker, P.E.
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  16. #16
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    Anytime I hear that Glen story, I shake my head in disbelief. During qualifying??? That sucks big time.

    It needs to be done immediately.



    While I agree it should be done soon, immediately will often cause more issues than good. Like Matt, I believe it’s better to have a few minutes for both parties to cool off, absorb what happened, and collect their thoughts.

    The first thing I want to do is review the video if one exists. This information can be so valuable! I think back to the ’05 ARRC and my incident with an ITC car and another ITB car. Taking the minute or two to review the video first made quite a difference on the overall outcome of my discussion with the ITC driver. Initially he was extremely upset with me. I showed him the video which totally changed the conversation. I know that if I had just gone over there immediately the conversation would have gone differently.

    or ask them to page the driver to the tower and talk about the incident that happened.


    As soon as a person hears their name being called to the tower, they will immediately go on the defense. In most situations I’d rather have an initial discussion with the person unless I’m just too pissed.

    While I agree it’s a good idea to bring a crew member to the conversation you have with another driver, if I were approached by the “liason driver” I’d wonder what’s going on.

    The way I handle the situation will also vary dependant upon if I’ve been racing with the driver for while and we’ve respected each out on the track, if I don’t know him at all, and if I think the incident was done intentionally (if I beleive it’s his fault). The later of these situations is the one situation I'll head to the tower instead of seeking out the driver.
    Dave Gran
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  17. #17
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    All our races have Stewards...though.

    Face it, you are on your own out there. The best rule is to avoid contact and avoid situations where contact is likely.

    Go beat on a panel before making or inviting apology visits.

  18. #18
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    This has always been an interesting thing to me. In a perfect world, 1.) If I feel it's my fault (read, I'm not pissed) I go over immediately. I'll take the beating and apologize/try to make it right. 2.) if I feel it's their fault (read, I'M PISSED) then I want to wait and calm down before I go find them. I also hope that time they will allow them to come find me. Most of the time, I just want an apology. I haven't had someone else's actions total my car so I don't have an opinion on what else I would want from them.

    The problem with this logic is, you only have 30 minutes post race to protest. I can take more than 15 minutes too cool down. Then I have to find my rep. Then I have to make my way to the tower, blah blah blah. If I wait too long and feel I need to act, I normally don't have enough time.

    The adrenaline rush is rough. I ALWAYS take someone else with me to get in between if I have to. Not to keep them from getting to me, but to prevent me from getting to them. The worst time I had the driver pushed me off in 4 different corners. The last one was at T3 at Summit. Literally pushed me into the gravel. The argument got no where. He didn't get it. His kids were there, his wife was there, my brother grabbed me and said it's not worth it and pulled me away.

    What can you do? Type A personalities + adrenaline + feeling of being wronged = bad situation at times.

    I personally would like to see the protest window be opened from 30 min to 60 min for non mechanical protests. You might get more protests, you might get less, but at least most would be done with a little cooler head.
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  19. #19
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    The problem with this logic is, you only have 30 minutes post race to protest.
    I agree with the notion of extending the published time limit. If a person doesn't feel like they can come to a resolution within 30 minutes, vist the steward and let them know you'd like to speak with the driver and others before filing a protest, and ask if they'd extend the time limitation. I believe in most situations they will allow this - I've only tested this out once and they did.
    Dave Gran
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by planet6racing View Post
    Not all regions/divisions have driver advisors.

    In (5) years of racing, I have yet to make contact with another car on course. Of course, now that I said that...
    Oh no - never say that! I did and got clobbered in my 6th year!

    The key is to communicate. The only inccident of note that I have been in occurred last year. I think both of us felt that the other driver was at fault and so we were both waiting on the other party to start the communication/explanation process. As a result nothing was said until the next race. This created an unresolved issue that festered in the back of my mind as I beat and welded my car back into racing condition. It also created an uneasy situation on the track and it put a damper on things for me.

    As far as the incident was concerned I don't feel it was my fault however I am to blame for not speaking with the other driver the day it happened.
    Scott Peterson
    KC Region
    83 RX7
    STU #17

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