NHMS happeneings

[JLawton]

I love to read this forum.....everyone has a name accept guys or gals in Miatas.

It's just frustration Jerry. The ITA drivers all play very nicely with each other and it seems to be the Miata's that double dip that seem to be the problem (although I don't now anything about Dick's situation). For the most part, the've done a great job with their situational awareness when getting lapped but there are still the same stories.....

Last weekend at Pocono, the ITB leader was almost taken out by a Miata mid packer pulling a real bone head move. That sort of crap has to stop........

[MKB]

DICK.........spot on race reporting! ALSO you must be the ONLY person I know who would report "Wicked fun weekend" after being spun out of a possible victory (lesson to be learned i would say) The "wave of debris" that came off Dicks car was most impressive (it really looked like water)! I also would like to thank all who stopped over to congradulate Us on our 1st victory! I did not know I had that many friends and have to admit I did not know everyone who stopped in!!!!! What a GREAT club!

6 weeks till RAL.


Mike B IT7 #29

[dickita15]

My incident involving a Miata did not involve lapping. He was running in ITA behind me, my race went away and I backed off a bit. He caught up with me and as he was not in my class the first time he took a look I gave him the inside and he could not pull it off without hitting me. The lapping comment is an inside joke between Andy and I.
Jerry I see no reason to call this guy out by name as I do not think he is on this board.
I am not sure why we tend to see more Miata guy seeming to get into this kind of spot than others but I have some guesses. There are a lot of novice drivers running Miatas. My friend was in our April school.
I think that Miatas are easier than most cars to drive therefore rewarding a inexperienced driver with a faster lap than he might get in another car for the same skill level.
And finally for those that hang out with the SM/SSM crowd I really do think there is a culture difference that does value momentum more than the duty to avoid contact ay all costs.
The incident I had on Saturday was between two cars dicing for the lead driving at 100% if their combined talent level and car capability. At least we were racing for something worth winning.
The novice in the Miata that hit me after I gave him the inside was 10 seconds behind the next ITA car and 5 second ahead of the next one with cars from other classes in between.

[Doc Bro]

Sorry to change the subject from Miata bashing BUT, I'd like to applaud tech this weekend.

Tech was very proactive this weekend. They encouraged driver involvement in self policing by mandating open hoods. They encouraged drivers to look under everyone's hood. There were questions asked and answers given, some with embarassed expressions (like why are you using our broom to hold your hood open?). They also checked motor mounts, ride heights, weights and in SM made them take off exhaust manifolds to check porting, to name a few. While there were some grumblings, I personally think it was great.

BTW, there were some DQ'd, and some given a by next event as a result.

R

[gran racing]

I think that Miatas are easier than most cars to drive therefore rewarding a inexperienced driver with a faster lap than he might get in another car for the same skill level.

I've only driven a Miata once at Lime Rock and was surprised at how easy of a car it is to drive a 9/10ths. It was a damp day, the back end came out in the left hander and was much easier to control than I would have anticipated. Getting the Miata to that last 10th is a whole nother ball game though. Maybe because reaching the 9/10ths mark isn't too difficult but getting to the next level is might be the cause of some of these incidents.

It's popularity and relative ease to build a decent SM also adds to new drivers being attracted to the category. I also think the fact it's a spec class creates a thought process that they need to take larger risks to complete passes. For us IT guys, different cars have different strengths and weaknesses so we determine where our cars are stronger more easily. I wonder if in combined groups they're just so programmed with the way they race in a complete SM field.

[lateapex911]

The Meotters I've driven have been incredibly forgiving, and I've watched guys race with me -(at pocono, where I was grouped with them, and my 4 laps on a wacko track I'd never driven put me in the not so desirable neighborhood) - do some real shove it in there,dive bomb, hope for the best on the other side passes, and if I wanted to be a dick, (the third time from the same..... errrrr...guy) i could have easily not jumped out of the throttle, and therefor driven into their recovery space and punted them. Finally, I got a clue as to where the track went, and drove more aggressively, and that was that.

I think that the fact is that you can be a complete bonehead, get the thing all out of shape, and just drive, away makes folks feel invincible. In other cars I've driven, if I pulled some of the stunts I've seen, I'd be at the frame shop.

[jimalley]

I normally don't post, but I check this site faithfully. I plead guilty to being the racer (Jim Alley) who ruined Dicks weekend.

I got involved in SCCA in 2006 and have raced in the NER ITA field since I joined. I was sixty years old when I joined and quite frankly don't have the skills, experience, or guts to run up front. Then again and don't have the ego so that is a problem for me, as it apparently is for others. I have been racing door to door with all the people in this race group for three years without contact and now that I have made a driving error, and because I drive a Miata, I am some kind of an idiot or jerk.

All I can say is:

1. I went out of my way to find Dick in the paddock area on my way out, to apologize as I probably didn't give him adequate room. Although I will say that I was hit in the rear quarter and think if BRAKES had been applied the incident could have been avoided. Maybe not. Either way I took the responsibility and still do.

2. Starting at age sixty to take up racing I chose the Miata on the advice of quite a few knowledgeable people as I wanted to start in a Viper I owned at the time. I am glad I chose the Miata as it is well balanced and very forgiving. In my mind it is the perfect car for someone my age who is happy running mid field and I don't think I should have to apologize for driving a Miata.

3. I have been dive-bombed and cut off by every type of car because I am a mid pack racer. I have always given point by's when being lapped and don't think I have been a problem for others on the track. I have had no more problems with Miatas than any other car.

4. I hope if I don't get discouraged by all the negativity and quit, that I don't fall into the category of whining, complaining and making excuses for my own inadequacy as seems to be a commonplace problem. I decided to do this for the fun, enjoyment and an escape of owning and running a business that is stressful. I am not interested in going to the track to be the center of controversy or to have any confrontation over club racing. No Thank you!

Well I have most likely said more that I should have, but it is not fair to other responsible Miata drivers to be painted with the same brush. Think about it!

[dickita15]

Jim
I am sorry you are upset or discouraged and if you have been racing for three years and never had contact that was the start of a good record. I am sorry I called you a novice, I thought I saw you at the school in April, if that is not true I am sorry for the mistake.
Yes you did wave me down and apologize. I have to admit I found it a little unsatisfying. First if I feel I wronged someone I try to seek them out right away and not let over an hour pass and second, and this may be a matter of style or personality I really was not impressed with the idea that you really thought this was your fault. You never looked at my car or asked about damage. This maybe only my perception as you seem to express yourself more fully in with the written word than verbally so again if I perceived the conversation wrong I am sorry.

1. I went out of my way to find Dick in the paddock area on my way out, to apologize as I probably didn't give him adequate room. Although I will say that I was hit in the rear quarter and think if BRAKES had been applied the incident could have been avoided. Maybe not. Either way I took the responsibility and still do.

Above is where we have a problem. Had I been able to divine that you were unable or unwilling to control your car in a manner that would allow me racing room, yes I could have jammed on the brakes at the exit of the corner and avoided contact. I am not that psychic. The track narrows to forty feet at the point that you hit me and drove me off the track. I was letting you by and gave you 35 of track to get it done. The rules require you to leave me 5 feet. You were not hit. You hit me in the right front wheel.
You cannot have it both ways. Saying it may or not be your fault is not taking responsibility.
If you are discouraged my conscience is fine.

[ner88]

My final word on this:
A person should not be judged by the car that he has chosen to drive.
The Miatas racing in ITA are there because they have a right to just as your Honda, Accura or whatever is.
I'm sure if Jim was driving a RX7 it may have been nothing more than a bad move!
In my 8 years of racing Miatas I have never driven anyone off track or taken anyone out of a race, so I don't like being lumped into a catagory just because of my car choice.

Call them....Old, bald, fat, short, but please not Miata guys!
But, then again??????never mind!

[JLawton]

My final word on this:
A person should not be judged by the car that he has chosen to drive.
The Miatas racing in ITA are there because they have a right to just as your Honda, Accura or whatever is.
I'm sure if Jim was driving a RX7 it may have been nothing more than a bad move!
In my 8 years of racing Miatas I have never driven anyone off track or taken anyone out of a race, so I don't like being lumped into a catagory just because of my car choice.

Call them....Old, bald, fat, short, but please not Miata guys!
But, then again??????never mind!

Jerry, tried to PM you but you have it turned off.......

Yes, we do have a tendency to lump all Miata drivers together......Human nature....... But that being said, the Miata drivers in general have a different frame of mind. The stuff I see in the SM and SSM races just makes me shake my head. In my years of running IT (7), 80% of my hits came from Miatas..............all in the two year period when I was in ITB and ran in the same run group. You had stated that you have never hit anyone (and knowing you, I have no doubt about that) but how many times have you been a victim??? I know, you race SM so the percentages are there.....but how many of those hits came from more than just "racing" incidents?

We do have a great group of racers in ITA here in the Northeast. From what I have seen, none of us is willing to total their car just to make a pass. That's why I have really enjoyed racing the last two years. I just wish everyone else had the same frame of mind.

(and I really don't care if you're old, bald, fat and short!! )

[Doc Bro]

80% of my hits came from Miatas..............

The remaining 20% came from Joe I presume.

R

[Andy Bettencourt]

From what I have seen, none of us is willing to total their car just to make a pass.

Damn Saturn drivers.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuiQVgAnvgk[/ame]

[ner88]

I understand everyones frustration, but it's not because their is some sence of willingness to write off our cars.
New drivers go to Miatas for several reasons, unfortunately we all have to deal with them.
The SM guys upfront race hard and clean, and yes we worry about the new aggressive guys at the back.
I had two well know IT guys in my rental Miata this weekend both ran mid-pack without any issues.
If you guys think it's only Miata guys that are bad and problemed stand in T3 for an IT race, take your blinders off and pay attention!

HELP WANTED! at all NER races!
Pacecar drivers
Trophy person
gas pump attendant

send resume to:
[email protected]

[raffaelli]

HELP WANTED! at all NER races!

Trophy person

Are ya gonna make me wear a two piece?:eek:

[dickita15]

Jerry,
I don’t know what to tell you. You are not going to stop the trash talk. Kind of reminds me of the old joke about lawyers: “it’s 90% that spoil the reputation of the rest of them”
We have talked above about some of the reasons why we have more problems with these cars and the stats support the problem. Sure there are plenty of good drives who race Miatas but the odds of running into a problem are real. There were 4 Miatas in my race group. Two or maybe three had contact. I don’t have firsthand knowledge about the third, but the two seemed to be at fault.
I am sorry for those good guys in Miatas who are offended but there is a reason for stereotypes.

[lateapex911]

Same tune, different beat:

http://www.roadrace-autox.com/bbs/fo...osts=3#M213346

[jimalley]

Dick

I am sorry I didn't seek you out sooner, because thats what you consider proper protocol. To be honest I don't intend to get into a confrontation because someone is still hot under the collar and needs to cool down.

I may not be very vocal or keep a low profile, but I do observe behavior around the track. Some of it is not very desirable (although I am impressed that a greater percentage of behavior is very sportsman like) I don't know you or your personality so I thought it was the best way to handle it at the time.

My wife and I had a family obligation and I was loading up and try to get out as quickly as possible so maybe more time expired than I realized.

Please PM me if you have expenses that you occurred and want to discuss.

[RSTPerformance]

It was nice visiting those that I was able to see... I stoped in with Stephen and we bought Smarty out of a couple sizes of new tires for the Audi's after that we went back home to do some work on the cars trying to get them ready for the PROIT race at Lime Rock on 8/2/08... Hoping to make that, and we will see what comes next... we need to beat up on the VW A3 takeover... It was nice to see Tim Mullen in an Audi, now he knows how we feel at NHIS!!! lol

Dick/Jim and others...

Did the Stewards stop you in Black flag" (the pits) to discuss any of your "incidents?" Just wondering...

Raymond

[dickita15]

yes Raymond they did.

[JLawton]

Damn Saturn drivers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuiQVgAnvgk

Hitting Joe doesn't count..........Do you remember what his car looked like before?????