Heater cores

[77ITA]

I don't expect any changes on this rule (because then we'd all be driving prod cars! ), but has anyone sat down and actually thought about how ludacris it is to have a plumbed heater core dangling under the dash of our IT cars?

As the build on my S2000 has brought me to this subject, I feel like such a fool for being directed to keep a fully plumbed (but plugged) heater core on a racecar where I am allowed to remove the A/C system in whole. It adds additional failure points, complexity, expense, and time... all because someone thinks that having a heater core defines the class.

Who knows, maybe heater cores contain the "good for the class" magic that is polar opposite of the "bad for the class" magic contained in original equipment style remote reservoirs.

Wait... great idea! I can prop-up my laptop on the heater core while I program my stand alone engine management!

[betamotorsports]

Write a letter.

[lateapex911]

Why don't you actually use it? They help do this wonderful thing: clear the windshield, helping you to win races. I know mine has helped me win in the rain. I wouldn't take it out for money.

As for failure points, c'mon, that's stretching...sure, theoretically, it's a failure possibility, but practically? Not really, if you're realistic. If you're really afraid of it failing, plug it.

[shwah]

I have a fully functional heater/defroster in my IT car - even though 'real' race cars don't need such things. I use it as a cooling fan for the motor when not moving, and save the weight of a cooling fan located in the worst possible place for a fwd race car.

[gran racing]

What Jake said. AND since I race in the NE primarily, I enjoy having heat on those cold days. Burrr!

When I think about it, wouldn't being directed to remove the heating add complexity, expense, and time? If I had to do it, I wouldn't even know how without doing research.

[dj10]

Why don't you actually use it? They help do this wonderful thing: clear the windshield, helping you to win races. I know mine has helped me win in the rain. I wouldn't take it out for money.

As for failure points, c'mon, that's stretching...sure, theoretically, it's a failure possibility, but practically? Not really, if you're realistic. If you're really afraid of it failing, plug it.

I just replaced my heater core. Vision is more important than saving a few lbs. of weight.

[mbuskuhl]

Lot's of people for the heater core. I agree with you Jeff, the things should be able to come out.

[Greg Amy]

HAH! I just watched last weekend a Koni Challenge team I work with only WISH they had a heater core, as they had to make two additional pit stops just to clean off the windshield...

Bet Jake can give you similar words to the wise...think a first-gen RX-7 can't win in ITA...?

I will never remove a working heater from a race car, unless the rules require it. - GA

[AjG]

Well if you have a “well classed” car that is competitive at it’s easy-to-obtain weight, then a heater (core)is a nice little piece of equipment, just like a cool suit. If on the other hand you drive a certified piggly wiggly that needs every ounce extracted just to even feel like you have a chance then the mandatory heater core starts to seem pretty darn annoying pretty darn fast.
If we believe in the process-weight process, let the people who want to suffer the inconvinece of heaterlessness get down to the weight that they have a ITAC-given right to get down to.

[77ITA]

Write a letter.

Thank you, but I prefer a little discussion on the topic. Besides, If I were to write a letter I would only wind up reading my last name in Fastrack followed by a "rule is adequate as written" or "not within class philosophy"

As for all you pro-heater core guys, that's fine if you would like to keep it. You can keep your A/C for those hot days too. I had a heater core in my ITA Neon and never needed to use it thanks to RainX Anti-fog. The stuff works great inside your helmet too!



Getting back to the point of all this, I'm hoping to hear a good argument for why a heater core is required when you can remove the rest of the A/C system.

[dickita15]

My current car has a working heater defroster, my previous one had it plugged. The ability to plug or bypass the heater core blunts any safety failure point arguments.
My answer to the weight and complexity argument is: then why not replace the dashboard, replace windows with Lexan and allow carbon fiber body panels.

[Ed Funk]

My current car has a working heater defroster, my previous one had it plugged. The ability to plug or bypass the heater core blunts any safety failure point arguments.
My answer to the weight and complexity argument is: then why not replace the dashboard, replace windows with Lexan and allow carbon fiber body panels.

Cool!!

[Ron Earp]

Getting back to the point of all this, I'm hoping to hear a good argument for why a heater core is required when you can remove the rest of the A/C system.

Me too. The rules state:

"Air conditioning systems may be removed in whole or in part."

"Engine coolant fluid, coolant/heater hoses and clamps may be substituted. Heater hoses may be plugged. Heater water control valve(s) may be added or substituted. Heater core and hoses shall not be removed."

In the same vein as a few posts on this thread; you are forced to keep a system that can provide warmth on a cold day but you can remove completely a system that can keep you cool on a hot day. Was the rule written by those above the Mason Dixon line, you know, the area where it is sometimes chilly?

Or were the rules born from the fact that not all cars had AC "back in the day" but all of them did have heating systems. Therefore the rule leveled the playing field somewhat?

[Knestis]

>> I will never remove a working heater from a race car, unless the rules require it. - GA

Ditto.

This discussion reminds me of fights I used to have with the ex-girlfriend: It's always the same, it has predictable outcomes, and could be scripted around [insertyourfavoritethingtoremovehere], too.

It does NOT however have make-up sex, so why go through it again? :026:

If you don't get the overarching rationale behind not allowing more and more pieces to be removed from IT cars, then you've probably just got a philosophical difference of opinion about "what a race car is supposed to be." Actually, someone who HAS that philosophy is probably predisposed to ask for those allowances, so it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You are allowed to have those differences of opinion but I'm pretty confident that the current ITAC understands that it's their role to preserve what's good about the category and - regardless of individual priorities - heater cores, stock bodywork, glass windows, marker lights, stock engine mounts, and even washer bottles are part of that.



I'm doing a little experiment, as my Freshman ITAC member research project. I call it "Bizzaro World ITCS." I took the 2008 version of our rules, and am amending them to include all of the changes that the ITAC is asked to consider. I started too late to include the most recent requests for plastic windows and "alternate material body parts" but it's already well on its way to being pretty different than the IT rules we use on this planet. I'll share it here at the end of the year, to give you all some sense of where we might be if every IT racer's individual "I wanna" got approved.

K

EDIT - my current favorite is the allowance to remove "washer bottles and all the other stuff in the engine compartment that is not needed to race." No potential for unintended consequences there!

[Knestis]

...
Or were the rules born from the fact that not all cars had AC "back in the day" but all of them did have heating systems. Therefore the rule leveled the playing field somewhat?

The rules grew from a philosophy that said, "Do the minimum stuff required to make a stock street car ready for racing." There's no modification cheaper than "no modification."

K

[Ron Earp]

I'm doing a little experiment, as my Freshman ITAC member research project. I call it "Bizzaro World ITCS." I took the 2008 version of our rules, and am amending them to include all of the changes that the ITAC is asked to consider. I started too late to include the most recent requests for plastic windows and "alternate material body parts" but it's already well on its way to being pretty different than the IT rules we use on this planet. I'll share it here at the end of the year, to give you all some sense of where we might be if every IT racer's individual "I wanna" got approved.

This is gonna be good, I can't wait for the outcome!!

[tom_sprecher]

Pass.

[JeffYoung]

Could be a safety issue as well -- on why we allow the removal of a/c but not the heater core. A/C runs on a pressurized system of a not so friendly gas. Not sure we want that in a car when there is a wreck.

A heater core, not so dangerous.

The rules grew from a philosophy that said, "Do the minimum stuff required to make a stock street car ready for racing." There's no modification cheaper than "no modification."

K

[lateapex911]

Regarding weight.

Seriously??

A heater core weighs what, 2 lbs? and the lines, what, another 2? And there are complaints about 4 pounds, located in the MIDDLE of the car!?!?!?. Remember, if you are weight crazy, you can drain the lines and the core. Pulleeeeeze. Are you REALLY that good as a driver that 4 pounds spells disaster?

If so, then, I bet this, when we meet, I'll find more than 4 extra pounds on your body. (4 out of 5 times.... unless we're talking pros, who's job depends on their leanness and conditioning)

(I'm 6'3", weigh 198, and am about 5 pounds over. I do long distance swim competitions, as well as some running and biking, and I could be in a LOT better shape. I'll bet half the IT racers don't consider their body as part of the car....)

Sorry, but exercise benefits the car, and you, in many more ways than removing the easy to use, can't forget to apply it vision enhancing heater core. If youre in shape, you don't NEED a cool suit. I see guys with them for 20 minute races, and honestly, I laugh. Really! Yeah, it's nice on grid, but for 20 minutes?? (Shakes head). I've done a 3 hour enduro in 93 degree heat without one, it's not that hard.

(And why is it that MANY Pro teams can't seem to keep a windshield clear...I assume their staffing and budget have considered RainX etc.)

All cars come with heaters, many come with AC, but not all. Leave the Heater, it makes life better, doing nothing is easier and simpler.

[DavidM]

Somebody edumacate me. When you use the heater core for "defrost" are you just using the fan or actually heating the air via the core? Seems like blowing hot, moist air on the window wouldn't do a whole lot of good. Here in the south you gotta run the air through the dryer to dry out the air in order for the defrost to have any affect.

David