July Fastrack

[JeffYoung]

Herring is a NASTY fish.......

I fully believe that is how IT would be run, at least at first. I still worry about: (a) losing regional race dates, etc. if we merge but keep the regional/national distinction and (b) the influence that other racer cultures will have on IT if we go national.

In any event, I respect the "go National" position and am frankly a bit hopeful that the guys on the "inside" think it is a good idea. Means management ain't as bad as it may so appear when you look at the really farked up classes like Prod and GT.

I've posted this elsewhere, but if you get rid of the National/Regional distinction and the effect that would have on traditionally strong regional weekends, you are far more likely to get my support for this (one vote that it is!).

Otherwise, it's Spec TR8 in NASA and you guys will lose HUNDREDS of drivers as a result.......lol.

Boy, you guys sure do jump on red herrings quickly, LOL. They must be tasty.

Jeff...in long past discussions with the CRB, when we were just shooting the s8it, and the national thing came up, the issue of IT being run by us, (as opposed to the CRB and the BoD) came up, and it was met with 100% absolute certainty that if IT were to go National, that nothing would change in regards to the ruleset and the running of the category. (that's the CRB's position) Now, of course, we haven't really sat down and had actual official meetings over it, and the suggestion was tuned down by the BoD, but, that's one concern that I don't share.


I know, call me naive', but remember, i'm on the inside and know the characters.

[shwah]

Chris - I think "prevailing sentiment" is in fact the correct description. It was over 2 to 1 against going National, in the poll held on these pages. That's not just a "vocal group", rather a very clear cut majority.

Sounds to me like 1/3 of this slice of the IT world thought it was a good idea. That does not sound like a prevailing sentiment or consensus to me.

Fear of cost escalation is code for fear of stronger competition.

[trd77]

This Spec Tr8 sounds very interesting to me. I may know of two cars that might run in the class

[pgipson]

This Spec Tr8 sounds very interesting to me. I may know of two cars that might run in the class

if I want to run spec TR8 do I need a TR8 or can I use a TR7 that has been updated and modified to have the same rwhp/tq numbers as a mildly modified TR8?

[OTLimit]

The sad part is that many people racing in IT don't realize that there are a good percentage of IT drivers already spending more than many National class drivers. Numbers? can't say for sure, but I do know that realistically, I could be funding two IT cars for the same $$ as I am spending on the IT and Prod cars, with none left over. If you want to run anything above midpack in IT with any serious competition, you are probably already spending as much as many National drivers. As newer cars come in, they are getting more complicated and cost more to "go faster." Fact of racing.

[NORRIS]

Just thinking out loud.

I'm thinking SCCA may want IT to be National when National numbers dwindle and they are looking for extra income.

Just a thought

[erlrich]

Just in case anybody missed it: https://improvedtouring.com...ad.php?t=23946

Is it too late to retract my first post?

[planet6racing]

The sad part is that many people racing in IT don't realize that there are a good percentage of IT drivers already spending more than many National class drivers. Numbers? can't say for sure, but I do know that realistically, I could be funding two IT cars for the same $$ as I am spending on the IT and Prod cars, with none left over. If you want to run anything above midpack in IT with any serious competition, you are probably already spending as much as many National drivers. As newer cars come in, they are getting more complicated and cost more to "go faster." Fact of racing.

DING DING DING!!! We have a winner!!!

New tires for each weekend for IT front of field: Check.
New engine every year (or sooner): Check.
Dyno time to tune engine and computer: Check.
Custom shock valving for each track: Check.
Separate transmissions for each track: Check.

The only costs that, at least here in the Cendiv, that IT doesn't have that a lot of National classes have is bodywork - we don't hit each other as much. Otherwise, it's all the same.

And, yes, I know, those of you that believe that it will be more expensive will continue to do so. Those of us who believe it won't make it any more expensive will also continue to do so.

[924Guy]

DING DING DING!!! We have a winner!!!

New tires for each weekend for IT front of field: Check.
New engine every year (or sooner): Check.
Dyno time to tune engine and computer: Check.
Custom shock valving for each track: Check.
Separate transmissions for each track: Check.

Dang, I don't do ANY of these... guess I'm not committed enough?!?

if I want to run spec TR8 do I need a TR8 or can I use a TR7 that has been updated and modified to have the same rwhp/tq numbers as a mildly modified TR8?

<hmmph> That's what I get for scrapping all my Wedges...

Otherwise, it's Spec TR8 in NASA and you guys will lose HUNDREDS of drivers as a result.......lol.

"And we'd like to thank our fans for being here for us... both of them!"

[gran racing]

Sounds to me like 1/3 of this slice of the IT world thought it was a good idea. That does not sound like a prevailing sentiment or consensus to me.

You know I love this forum, but what percentage of all IT entrants post here or voted on this issue? It might give a feel for some of the attitudes and raise some excellent points but that's about it. For that matter, I wonder how many people who race in IT even read FasTrack on a regular basis?

Fear of cost escalation is code for fear of stronger competition

Cost & competition often go hand in hand. Would I be bummed if on a regular basis we start seeing all of the GrandAm among other high dollar teams driving IT cars in addition to their pro rides? Yeah, I would. I wonder then what a driver who currently runs more towards the back of the pack already would think. What about those people entertaining the idea of starting to race using essentially stock cars?

In a way, some of this reminds me of how NASCAR has done things. The pro drivers are now running in what I think should be the ladder series.

Dang, I don't do ANY of these... guess I'm not committed enough?!?

LOL! Yeah, doing all that sure would get crazy expensive and I'd soon be tractor racing.

If you want to run anything above midpack in IT with any serious competition, you are probably already spending as much as many National drivers.

What type of costs are you talking about? You've peeked my interest especially since I race in ITB and have run with Chris before.

[shwah]

You know I love this forum, but what percentage of all IT entrants post here or voted on this issue? It might give a feel for some of the attitudes and raise some excellent points but that's about it. For that matter, I wonder how many people who race in IT even read FasTrack on a regular basis?

That is my exact point. A 2/3 majority of the small % of site users (which are a small % of IT racers) hardly makes a prevailing opinion. I can argue that 1/3 of that small slice of the IT world had the opposite opinion with equal little certainty that it represesnts the class as a whole.

Sounds like the 924 is a 'ringer'

[lateapex911]

You know I love this forum, but what percentage of all IT entrants post here ?....

good point. We have maybe a few hundred checking in here with any degree of regularity, and obviously there are a lot more IT cars out there. Now, the guys posting here are the most likely to write in and have their voice counted, but the ITAC gets letters regularly from non IT.com posters.

Cost & competition often go hand in hand. Would I be bummed if on a regular basis we start seeing all of the GrandAm among other high dollar teams driving IT cars in addition to their pro rides? Yeah, I would. I wonder then what a driver who currently runs more towards the back of the pack already would think.

IF IT cars were included in the national program, available races would increase, and the serious guys,, (the GrandAm-ers, so to speak) might migrate to the National races, leaving a little room at the top of a Regional field. Not all of them of course, and I am sure you'd see hybrid programs, but, for the guy in the back, his life would likely improve. (Finishing position-wise.)

One thing we see in National Prod and GT racing sometimes is guys running the minimum number of events, and, if the field is weak, pulling off at halfway to get the "completion" and their points, while saving wear and tear on the uber expensive billet crank /slide throttlebody /high compression engine. I think that the ruleset has created that sort of scenario, and lots of guys look at that kind of racing/wrenching and decline. Hence, it's not popular, and guys CAN run halfway and still net trophy points and an invite to the Runoffs. I suggest that IT guys, if IT were to be included in the National program, would actually have to race their way into invitations, and there wouldn't be a lot of pulling over halfway. IT is a popular ruleset, and with popularity comes competition.

In a way, some of this reminds me of how NASCAR has done things. The pro drivers are now running in what I think should be the ladder series.

Different animal. NASCARs Nationwide series is a business for teams, and often there are economies of scale at play. Plus sponsor obligations/opportunities and a whole slew of things that don't exist in club racing.

LOL! Yeah, doing all that sure would get crazy expensive and I'd soon be tractor racing.

Do you have any idea how expensive it is to run THREE blown hemis on one of those tractors? I have NO idea where the hayseed dudes get their money...NO idea. LOL

[Beran]

Anyone willing to give me feedback on this - or should I start a new thread to discuss the fastrack rather then this National IT discussion... which is a good one.

Is it a typo?
T3 number 3.
"Volkswagen GTI, classified in TB 08-01,"
Should it be "classified in T3"?
Also, 08-01 is this 2008 to 2001?

[jjjanos]

Boy, you guys sure do jump on red herrings quickly, LOL. They must be tasty.

Jeff...in long past discussions with the CRB, when we were just shooting the s8it, and the national thing came up, the issue of IT being run by us, (as opposed to the CRB and the BoD) came up, and it was met with 100% absolute certainty that if IT were to go National, that nothing would change in regards to the ruleset and the running of the category. (that's the CRB's position) Now, of course, we haven't really sat down and had actual official meetings over it, and the suggestion was tuned down by the BoD, but, that's one concern that I don't share.


I know, call me naive', but remember, i'm on the inside and know the characters.

Your naive.

On the changes -
Last month: "Once again, the Board is committed to this program, without significant changes, for the next three years. "
This month: "We didn't mean that."

On leaving IT philosophy alone if it goes National -

This month: "Nothing will change in regards to the ruleset and the running of the category."
Next month: "except for this...."

[Knestis]

TB 08-01 is Technical Bulletin 08-01 - part of the January FasTrack (first TB of 2008). It's at....

http://www.scca.org/documents/Fastra...strack-jan.pdf

...but the short version is:

10. Classify the Volkswagen GTI in T3.
Add new spec line to TCS, p. 585, Volkswagen GTI (06-08), Bore x Stroke(mm) / Displ.(cc): 82.5 x 92.8 / 1984, Wheelbase(mm):
2578, Wheel Size(in): 17 x 7, Tire Size: 225/45, Gear Ratios: DSG Trans: 3.46, 2.15, 1.46, 1.08, 1.10, 0.92, Final Drive: 4.10 –
3.14, Brakes(mm): (F)312 Vented Disc (R)286 Solid Disc, Weight(lbs): 3280, Notes: Restrictor TBD.

K

[jjjanos]

One thing we see in National Prod and GT racing sometimes is guys running the minimum number of events, and, if the field is weak, pulling off at halfway to get the "completion" and their points, while saving wear and tear on the uber expensive billet crank /slide throttlebody /high compression engine. I think that the ruleset has created that sort of scenario, and lots of guys look at that kind of racing/wrenching and decline. Hence, it's not popular, and guys CAN run halfway and still net trophy points and an invite to the Runoffs. I suggest that IT guys, if IT were to be included in the National program, would actually have to race their way into invitations, and there wouldn't be a lot of pulling over halfway. IT is a popular ruleset, and with popularity comes competition.

I think it has less to do with points and more to do with meeting your 4 race requirement.

Take Spec Miata - the most popular class out there.
In SEDIV, you needed 13 points to qualify. Two fourths, one ninth and one appearance got you into the show. OR a second, a third and two appearances. The only reason you need the appearance is to meet the # of race requirement.

Having a hard time finding other 2007 division standings to see if this is the case every where.

[Beran]

Thank you!
I see.... TB = Technical Bulletin
Sorry for the newbie question and thanks for the good answer.

[924Guy]

Sounds like the 924 is a 'ringer'

Naw, the car's a POS...

...it's all in the driver...

[dyoungre]

My two cents: If there was no distinction between a "National Event" and a "Regional Event" within my region, I really wouldn't care if IT were regional.
I'm guessing the problem is that the National participants don't want to have to share the track with Regional racers on any given weekend.
Thoughts?

[lateapex911]

My two cents: If there was no distinction between a "National Event" and a "Regional Event" within my region, I really wouldn't care if IT were regional.
I'm guessing the problem is that the National participants don't want to have to share the track with Regional racers on any given weekend.
Thoughts?

Take it one step further..if this had gone out for member input, I bet the input from non IT drivers would be inversely related to the popularity of their National class. In other words, guys in the H Prods and GT-3s of the world, (or insert other troubled classes) will be very much against IT going national, because it hastens their demise. ITB, ITA, and ITS are all WAY healthier than many National classes, and would take three (I'd bet) of the current plans coveted 10 Runoff groups.