ensuring legal cars

[jjjanos]

John, I sent pictures identifying chassis members competitors are tourching/cutting out to make room for their front down tubes (you want the same pictures?) along with naming the cage manufacture.

To who? Because unless it was to the Chief Steward or Assistant Chief Steward of a particular event, you are doing nothing but beatchin'. The CRB doesn't rule on the legality of a damn thing. It creates laws. The SoMs and the Court of Appeals determine legality.

8.3.2. Lodging a Protest
A protest shall be made in writing, specifying which sections of the GCR
or other applicable rules are alleged to have been violated, and signed by
the protestor. It shall be addressed to the Chief Steward and delivered to
him in person or to an Assistant Chief Steward at the control point for the
race. It shall be promptly forwarded to the Chairman of the SOM.
A. Protest Fee
The protest shall be accompanied by a protest fee of $50 for National
races, $25 for Regional races and Driver’s Schools.

I also requested the CRB reword a couple particular loose loop hole sentences by rule number in the ITCS & the SMCS. That John is what would be called proactive.

Which is it? The cage is illegal - in which case there are no loop holes - or they are legal and you are just upset that you did not see it?

Continiously protesting illegal cages is reactive.

Either the cage is legal or it isn't under the current rules, period. Changing the wording of the GCR will not alter that. Changing the wording might make them illegal, but that has no impact as to their legality under the current, as of now, rules.

[lateapex911]

I just got back from vacation....

This thread is schitzo! Half is perfectly reasonable and productive, the other half is out of control.

I am with Bowie!

David, what the heck is the problem?? Hair across the ass Andy? More like a Saturn V up the butt!? Why the hatred for the NE???

David, the CRB wrote the rules. They got your letter. They feel the rules are adequate as written. You feel certain cars are not abiding by the rules. Go protest them. Win the protest. Create the precedence. Have your way.

But don't come here all bitchy about the soapbox that we Northeasterners are on, and point fingers at Andy for building an illegal cage! leave Bill alone, his point was well made and productive.

Sorry to say it, but you are probably a great guy in person, but on the net, that's not the way you come across. Just because I'm on the ITAC doesn't mean I can't be reasonable in an official capacity, yet defend friends in an unofficial capacity.

[ddewhurst]

Jake, the name of the game should be to be proactive & the whatevre groups of the SCCA are reactive. IMHJ when a member writes a letter, the whatever SCCA groups know the facts of the letter are correct they should be proactive & do something to close the loop holes bla, bal, bla, you have heard it before. PROACTIVE is the key just as any of us are or would be with our business. Way to many people on this site like to look at their own posts & feel great about themselves. Several people have said as long as the roll cage is safe, who cares. < This is issue one, how many people deciding a cage is safe have the knowledge or capability to do an analysis of a cage. I have attempted to do something with a letter & to no avail. Trust me Jake, others that think they are the only ones with a grip on things maybe should rethink their thoughts. The original CRB member the letter was sent to totaly understood my bitch & he totaly understood the loop holes. He & I talked about the issues face to face ahead of time.

I had decided to let this issue pass but you just could'n leave it alone.

Hope & family you had a great vacation.

EDIT: Had Dick posted that I was missing the boat or did a personal pm suggesting I was off base I would have quit the moment I read anything from him. This is what the thread is about. Subect topic: >>> "So to build on one of Kirk’s comments what can be done to help make sure IT cars are compliant."

[Knestis]

Another example of a lack of understanding about the different roles of the branches of government (read, "the Club"). Got a neighbor breaking the law? You don't contact the state legislature and ask them to write a new law, or change the law, to keep someone from not following it. Call the cops. Press charges.

We have a Readers Rant thing in our local paper, where people can call in (don't even have to be able to write!) to voice opinions. Quite a few of them are about barking dogs, cars parked on sidewalks, and other local nuisances. The callers are unhappy enough to squawk about the scofflaws but not enough so that they engage law enforcement to remedy them.

The longer I play this game, and the more I learn from new experiences like the ITAC thing, the more I think we are in many of the pickles we see today because we try to enforce the rules by writing/rewriting them, rather than by, uh... Oh, yeah - enforcing them.

K

[JeffYoung]

Absolutely true.

Let me also ask this question. In Improved Touring racing, do we as a "policing" group think that the prevalence of cheating is high? Or are we perhaps more effective in "policing" than we suspect, meaning that informal pressure, desire not to "rip off" the guys you are racing against, etc. has created a culture where most blatant cheating simply doesn't occur?

From what little I know of the roundy roundy world, I would say that ITS/ITA in the SEDiv is pretty "clean." I think some of that is because we actually do a better job of proactive policiing than we suspect.

The longer I play this game, and the more I learn from new experiences like the ITAC thing, the more I think we are in many of the pickles we see today because we try to enforce the rules by writing/rewriting them, rather than by, uh... Oh, yeah - enforcing them.

K

[planet6racing]

...how many people deciding a cage is safe have the knowledge or capability to do an analysis of a cage.

I do.

[RSTPerformance]

So over the past couple weeks was anyone proactive to change our culture and go to impound even if they were not required? Did you open the hood, trunck, doors, etc.? I didn't see many (other than those required) at NHMS over memorial day...

Raymond

[JeffYoung]

Hoods and trunks are always open on Team Stinking Turd's race cars.

[lateapex911]

I didn't open my hood at impound...just didn't occur to me. But, I paddock with most of the guys in my class, and they know my car better than I do probably. If anybody wants the hood up, all they have to do is ask.

Tech DID have us leave our cars in impound, and sent us all to get our shop manuals. (A long walk for some) That's cool and all, but not exactly ideal. For us crewless guys, taking pressures didn't happen. (MY fault, I'll handle that kind of request differently next time)

Overall, I was glad to see tech calling for checks of things.

[seckerich]

Just remember Jake, tech has to check 2 items on all classes per weekend for compliance. Shop manual was a gimme.

[Bill Miller]

You guys look like you're having a good time here. Back to the pool!

[ddewhurst]

Bill, I'm finding that this site hardly warrents a look any more.

[gran racing]

No one is forcing you to.

[Knestis]

I personally kind of miss the sprawling philosophical arguments that we used to have but in truth, I think that things have settled down because we've fixed a few things. We've still got some issues (both in the category and this community, because they are NOT the same thing) but overall, the situation is better than it was a few years ago.

K

[Catch22]

Now I remember why I stopped coming here.

The only thing worse is watching a bunch of autocrossers argue about how much remaining undercoating is legal on a 20 year old Civic.

Scott, who welcomes anyone to look at anything they want on his car. Go 'head.