ensuring legal cars

[tderonne]

Won't work on a BMW with 11:1 compression. Even with stock compression I can't push start my car in 1st. Blame it on the rubber guibo too I guess.

James

Don't need to do 1st gear. Top couple will give you enough info. Worst case, pull the sparkplugs.

[gran racing]

I felt you were all wondering what we were doing as we were not worthy of being in impound...

Actually I thought you were there to congratulate us, check out our cars a bit, poke fun at me for my poor attempt at drawing fuel - never did the not worthy thing cross my mind.

I absolutely believe that there are ways for us to improve upon the protest process without a rules change. I know I already said this, but the majority of people I speak with are intimidated with the protest process and don't have an understanding of how to utilize the process.

[ddewhurst]

Bill, when have you ever viewed a tech person EVER look behind a dash to view the roll cage?

***How many years have you been on this rollcage thing? Are these illigal cages unsafe or more safe? What exactly is the performance gain? Give it up already.***

Raymond, maybe if people had paid some attention with the Production cars in the 70's they would not be what they are today. Wasn't there a very large stink a few years ago in the NE about Miata roll cages. Please remember the crap that happens in your Division with roll cages before you get up on your soap box. The soap box position seems to be trendy in the NE. Is your roll cage illegal & my comments burn a bit. You would not be the only car in the NE who has an illegal roll cage. Have you lost track of the IT rules changes over the past couple years.

Not to drag Dick into this post but he did say something to the effect of: What can be done to help make sure IT cars are compliant. < I would say he means legal to the written GCR words.

[Andy Bettencourt]

David,

I think the point about your cage issue is simple: It's an annual tech issue. It's not a post-race compliance issue. Cages are supposed to be evaluated and certified prior to even hitting the track. It SHOULDN'T have anything to do with week-to-week compliance.

Hoods and trunks up just like autox. Have been trying to get that done for years.

[planet6racing]

Have people support tech at anual tech who KNOW wht's under a dash on paticular cars. Example I KNOW whats under the dash of Miatas & I KNOW by looking at the front down tube location along with a couple other key items if the down tubes are legal or illegal.

Bill, when have you ever viewed a tech person EVER look behind a dash to view the roll cage?

David:

My posts have been directly against the first quote. You are claiming to "be an expert" and to be able to tell just "...by looking at the front down tube location along with a couple other key items..." to determine legality. From the way it reads, you could be working in tech and be able to tell, without looking behind the dash to determine legality. If so, why don't you volunteer and do so? I know Dennis, Mark, and Vern would all appreciate the help...

If you're not actually going to do something (e.g. Protest), then stop whining about it. Poop or get off the pot. You should have your SM done by now, so you really don't have any more excuses for not being there and not protesting. It even sounds like the protest bond will be minimal...

[ddewhurst]

Andy, your correct with the annual tech of cages.

Bill, you are good at running your mouth but not very good at reading. Be careful up on your soap box.

Raymound, after my last post I remembered when JohnRW got all over me about illegal/legal of roll cages. Hmm, IIRC the two of you are from the NE Division apparently with all tegether different views of roll cages.

[RacerBowie]

Andy, your correct with the annual tech of cages.

Bill, you are good at running your mouth but not very good at reading. Be careful up on your soap box.

Raymound, after my last post I remembered when JohnRW got all over me about illegal/legal of roll cages. Hmm, IIRC the two of you are from the NE Division apparently with all tegether different views of roll cages.

Could you possibly be any more of an ass on the internet? Seriously?

I can't put you on "ignore" because of your moderator status, but you keep popping up in otherwise productive threads with your poor attitude and your repetitive harpings on this perceived Miata cage issue. You were just offered a great way, in your region even, to actually DO something about this issue you keep whining about. Instead you choose to try to belittle the person who made the suggestion to you.

I keep coming back to this site because I feel it is important to stay up to date with the happenings in the category in which I race. But every time I have to deal with your attitude while reading through a thread I become that much more likely to just unplug. I'm sure the community here wouldn't miss me, as I don't add a whole lot to this forum, but I think that's a shame.

Maybe I'll just revert back to getting my IT news at the racetrack.

[planet6racing]

Bill, you are good at running your mouth but not very good at reading. Be careful up on your soap box.

Exactly what points have I misread? I've even included the quotes of YOUR statements that exhibit your point.

And, since you are saying that Raymond and I are on soap boxes, perhaps you should look under your feet.

[JohnRW]

Raymound, after my last post I remembered when JohnRW got all over me about illegal/legal of roll cages. Hmm, IIRC the two of you are from the NE Division apparently with all tegether different views of roll cages.

David - you are simply "tilting at windmills". You have repeatedly claimed that you know of illegal SM roll cages, but you haven't done a damn thing, other than whine about it, both here and to the CRB.

You expect the CRB to investigate and craft new language to address a couple of cars that you have an issue with, because you don't have the stones to protest them yourself. Aside from the obvious issue, the CRB has better things to spend its time on than micro-managing a couple of cars in your odd little corner of CENDiv. Grow some stones. It's $25, and you get it back if you're right...or even if your views were "well-founded but wrong". Pony up, kid.

Apparently, you can't be bothered to protest any of these cages you claim are illegal and "nothing is being done about", although it is clearly a Competitor's responsibility to protest compliance issues.

You know how the issue of cages got resolved in the NE ? A competitor protested, and the protest was heard, decided, and upheld. That's how it's supposed to work.

[Eagle7]

David,

I think the point about your cage issue is simple: It's an annual tech issue. It's not a post-race compliance issue. Cages are supposed to be evaluated and certified prior to even hitting the track. It SHOULDN'T have anything to do with week-to-week compliance.

Not sure I buy this. In my experience, tech doesn't care if it's illegal as long as its safe. They'll check the top of the halo joints for a complete weld, but don't care if your mounting plates are too large. It's hard for me to believe they would flunk you at your annual if you had illegally removed material to make a safe cage.

[JLawton]

Let's be honest with ourselves. There are a lot of limiting factors to how fast we are at this level. Driver ability, tire quality, engine prep, etc. The only way to really make a difference in performance with illegal items is to do lots of little things or cams/compression/etc.

If you see a lot of little things, talk to the guy. Which is what I think happens most of the time .

For the things that make a BIG difference it's difficult inspect. Not many people are willing to cough up $5,000 to have an engin torn apart. You never realy know if it's good driving, a well built engine or illegal pistons. All of us working on a small budget better be damned sure they'll find somthing illegal before they write a protest. Right?

What we had done in our protest is get a group together to soften the financial blow if we're wrong.

The only way to keep the illegal cars out is to have tech tear down engines (like the ARRC) or make it easier (less costly) to protest. Do we tack on an extra "compliance fee" to pay tech inspectors? How are the low budget guys going to rebuild their engine before the next race? If it's too easy to protest do we end up with a lot of protests that are found compliant?

No easy solutions.....