Memorial Weekend at CMP?

[JeffYoung]

As a driver of an S car I'm not opposed to your car being in our run group, but there are other considerations:

1. R/S/A/7 is the "standard" SEDiv run group.

2. A 300 horse Mustang should be far more capable and turn faster lap times than the best R and S cars. This makes comparing actual lap times difficult vs. theoretical ones.

3. While the actual lap times are comparable to or slower than the times of a good S or R car, it's the A and 7 guys who may have the most concern.

[Ron Earp]

I have no problem with the car in the run group if it turns similar times - makes since to me. I haven't followed the performance of the car too closely but wasn't it around 2:16 to 2:22 at VIR? That is essentially ITS times and although the ITS cars have less than half the horsepower, it is what it is.

If a Cobra R is running ITS sort of times and whatnot ,looks like to me the Pony cars would be a shoe in for ITR. Better suspension prep, lower horsepower, should be no threat to ITR.

[Cobrar05]

There is a hp/weight bias against the pony car family, including AS and ITO/American Iron like cars. It particularly shows up in situations controlled by the small bore contigent. The ECR for instance. We are running the ECR at Road Atlanta on Saturday, but Atlanta region is the only one that will allow us to compete. The small bore cars do not want us on the track with them and they can keep us away.

At the same time the influx of stock cars in SPO and GTA are completely overrunning the run group that has the AS cars in it. These cars DO NOT belong in the same run group. PERIOD!!

I ran 2:18's and VIR and if I were an expert driver I might could get it down to 2:14 or even 2:12. At the same time Ave ran 1:57 in his GT1 car with many in that run group running times in the 2:04/2:05 range.

Our cars need to be in a run group with cars more our speed and that is group 4. Group 4, however, has the clout to keep that from happening. Reality is there is probably no good place for street stock pony cars on dot tires to race in the SCCA and there is nothing really that can be done about it.

Unfortunately its probably decision time. With the stock cars taking over the big bore run group and fewer DOT V8 cars entering, its probably time to move on from the SCCA for NASA because the car count there and run groups is far more favorable.

Its a shame, but its the way the clubs are evolving.

[JeffYoung]

Rob, I would respectfully suggest that your car is probably capable of 2:10 to 2:12 at VIR. I think that is around the AS track record?

If so, at that speed, you are between 5 and 7 seconds off the normal GTA/1 cars. However, you would be 10 seconds plus FASTER than most IT7 and A cars.

There is no bias in SCCA against your type of car. Well, not sure I totally agree with that given the "issues" we are having geting the V8 ponies classed in ITR....but let me rephrase....your car as an ITO car -- like any ITO car -- is in a catchall class. Since the numbers of participants are low, you get stuck in basically where you (a) fit and (b) cause the least "trouble" from a time difference perspective.

I just think you happened to pick a car to race that right now, SCCA does not provide a good fit for class wise. AI in NASA is probably a much better fit.

Hate to lose you, and hope you build an ITR Mustang when they get classed.

[Cobrar05]

As a driver of an S car I'm not opposed to your car being in our run group, but there are other considerations:

1. R/S/A/7 is the "standard" SEDiv run group.

2. A 300 horse Mustang should be far more capable and turn faster lap times than the best R and S cars. This makes comparing actual lap times difficult vs. theoretical ones.

3. While the actual lap times are comparable to or slower than the times of a good S or R car, it's the A and 7 guys who may have the most concern.

I think you would find that its more track specific. My Cobra R would not get caught up with R and S cars at Road Atlanta where the HP comes into play more than at a place like CMP.

We run 1:39 with my co driver and 1:42/1:43 with me at Road Atlanta. Grid up at Barber and the amount of cornering and lack of straight away brings the V8 cars right back to the lighter R and S cars.

I will also tell you that its Katie bar the door for me at Road Atlanta or VIR when I am out there with NASCAR Cup stock cars in the same run group. Street stock(my Cobra R is a T1 car and so its street legal) on the race track with 10 800hp NASCAR Cup cars and another several tube frame Trans AM cars. Thats just stupid. The closing rate is scary.

[JeffYoung]

Actuall, not to quibble with you, but S cars have gone 39 at RA before, and I think the A track record is 42 or so.

Bottom line is, and I think we agree, SCCA's present classifications system doesn't really give you a "good" place to race. That I totally agree with but for your specific car -- a Cobra R -- hard to know how to fix it. There just aren't enough cars like that for an easy fix.

An ITR V8 Mustang on the other hand....well, if that goes through, you may end up racing in one of the largest classes we have.

I think you would find that its more track specific. My Cobra R would not get caught up with R and S cars at Road Atlanta where the HP comes into play more than at a place like CMP.

We run 1:39 with my co driver and 1:42/1:43 with me at Road Atlanta. Grid up at Barber and the amount of cornering and lack of straight away brings the V8 cars right back to the lighter R and S cars.

I will also tell you that its Katie bar the door for me at Road Atlanta or VIR when I am out there with NASCAR Cup stock cars in the same run group. Street stock(my Cobra R is a T1 car and so its street legal) on the race track with 10 800hp NASCAR Cup cars and another several tube frame Trans AM cars. Thats just stupid. The closing rate is scary.

[Cobrar05]

The '95 R/Steeda Q351 T1 car is currently before the CRB to be classed in AS. They have classed current T2 Mustangs for AS. I am sure they are torn between the T1 status and the fact that a 1998 T1 car is no longer in the same league as a current T1 car. It also makes requires a little more consideration as the car was the ONLY T1 Mustang at that time.

If the CRB classes my car at AS and gives me a national class to run, I would still ask why these 300 something HP DOT shod Mustangs are sharing a run group with tube from race cars on slicks.

As long as NASA American Iron cars are ITO legal and I can run the ARRC enduro I will participate enough to keep current for that race alone.

If the runoffs move to Indianapolis Motor Speedway, I will need a national class car and might well go the Honda S2000 route. But I am a Mustang writer with a mustang road race track audience. I need to continue to champion that part of the hobby.

[JeffYoung]

Rob, it's the big bore/small bore distinction. Historically, in the SEDiv, Big Bore cars (GT1/A/ITO/ITE/SPO/etc.) (basically all the V8s) ran togheter regardless of suspension, tires, etc. Small bore cars -- ITS/R/A/7 run together, although with some of the motors in R (and my motor for that matter) that distinction probably is't as relevant as it used to be.

Other divisions put S in with AS and other cars.

Not saying either is right, it just "is."

[Cobrar05]

oh, I understand. it is what it is

[seckerich]

Since it was an oversight in the supps that ITO remained in 2 groups after editing(love computer files) lets just see how registration goes. If you end up as the only ITO car I will see how the groups shake out. No promises, so plan on group 6 just in case. I still dont know why we let that darn english V8 on the track.