Am I reading this right?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Here are the people who volunteered to represent you:

> ITS, ITB, ITR
> David P Maynard
> Hudson, NH 03051-3769
> [email protected]

> ITA, T3
> Robert A Breault
> Higganum, CT 06441-4093
> [email protected]

> SSM, ITC
> Kyle Disque
> Waban, MA 02468
> Email: [email protected]

The initial meeting minutes are published on the web via the video. The second meeting when the ideas were presented and debated was at the NARRC portion of the NeDiv meetings in Rocky Hill.

Dick - I do not know exactly how the committee decided to appropriate the funds once the decision was made to pull back the payouts and 'increase' the trophies and try and promote the series more. I can tell you that I have NEVER felt more like the PTB wanted to design the best series for the participants so I have (blind) confidence that they will do right by us drivers. Is that stupid? Maybe, but we can always make changes in the future. What I did was volunteer to coordinate the driver feedback and present it to the committee.

I have asked them to outline their plan for the money and will report back when I can.

[RSTPerformance]

I have asked them to outline their plan for the money and will report back when I can.

First, thank you for the above...

I do recal your efforts Andy (and others) at getting driver/member feedback. The 07 season saw several mistakes and you and others stepped in to fix the problems for 08. NOBODY should forget that... you did an excellent job at getting this series back in the right direction.

However with that said I do have to admit that I do not recal any discussions with anyone (including but not limited to past champions, current contenders or active members whom volunteer time) reguarding the significant changes to the financial structure of the series.

I certainly hope that the money payout comes back in 09

(Sarcasm/Anger mode on) but for this year I will just hope that the funds are spent in similar ways as in the past. This would mean that classes with more entrants (more financial investment) are recognized for the class effort... Obviosly free dinners will be at the year end banquet for all class winners and a guest (that used to be the norm in the past even with the payout)... Dinners shall be as follows:
ITA gets nice steaks or samon,
ITS gets cod or chicken
ITB gets burgers and hotdogs with tomato and lettuce!!!
ITC gets grilled cheese with ham...
Then those Open wheel classes get to share a PB&J (Sarcasm/Anger mode off)

Raymond "ProIT here I come" Blethen

[dickita15]

I can tell you that I have NEVER felt more like the PTB wanted to design the best series for the participants so I have (blind) confidence that they will do right by us drivers.

yea right, "together we can"

It is the natural order of Bureaucratic organizations to grow larger and become more inefficient. I bleed SCCA but we are the second most bureaucratic group in the free world. The great thing about NARRC was it was simple. It was an overlay to the existing regional races in Area 1. The entire administration was two half hour meetings a year. Now we have a $14,000 tax with no oversight. Do we really need more NARRC tee shirts? They tried this with NESCCA nationals, it failed, and I fought that too.

[Tkczecheredflag]

My two cents.

Watching the NARRC points and Money Fund to see who has qualified for the Prize Money, has always been part of my "update routine" at the NARRC site. I collected four or five checks over the years - I have photocopied ALL of them - folded them and either inserted them in the trophy or attached them to the rear of the plaque - a great momento.

I am a big believer that after this "racing thing" is all said and done, all we have are the videos tapes, the "hardware", the photo copies of a couple of checks, and maybe the opportunity to talk a little trash.

[dominojd]

I see no smiley faces in you post Joe so I must assume you are serious. I must also assume our drivers committee know exactly what we are getting with regard to a better banquet and trophies for the tripling of the administrative fee from $2,333 to $7 grand.
I also assume that they have a projected budget for the $7000 that is being taxed for Marketing and Advertising.
I assume that none of our representatives would allow an extra $11,655 to be taken out of the drivers pockets without knowing the benefit.

Come on now is anything I ever say NOT Sarcastic?

[StephenB]

[QUOTE=StephenB;264170]ANDY,

Was this in Pit Talk at any point? I looked back and couldn't find it. Was this posted in Sports Car as this is our official comunication to the members of the club? Was a generic mailing sent out to all the NARRC Finishers, I don't recall getting one. I will refrain from commenting further until I here back on where it was published because I legitimatly could have missed my invite to attend or comunication that anything was going to change.

QUOTE]

Does anyone know this answer? I have posted it a few times without any responses.

Andy B. mentioned... QUOTE "there was PLENTY of opportunity to know that the NARRC committee was interested in your opinion” but I haven't seen anything anywhere that proves that. Internet is a great way to seek out a particular demographic of people but a VERY POOR way to seek feedback from our members. It is not the official communication of SCCA or NERSCCA. I am not trying to get anyone upset but no one seems to know the answer and as you can see I myself am getting a bit frustrated.

Stephen

PS: I do think that some people have put in a huge effort in the past few years to make IT better that can't go unnoticed. I do thank those like Andy and others. I do often wonder if they are truly looking at feedback from all members even those that are not part of the Internet community like myself and this is why I feel as though at this time I should speak up with my limited internet opportunities that I have.

[dickita15]

I went to the NER Club Racing Board meeting last night and asked publicly the Chairman, Serge, two questions. One did NER two reps vote for this and was told yes, and second what were they thinking.
The meeting last night was told by Serge that Andy made a nice presentation at the NARRC meeting that proposed that what was voted, abolishing the points fund and spend the money on a combination of the banquet and advertising, was what the majority of drivers wanted. Serge did not seem to care much personally so he said as it appeared that Andy had done the research he voted for what Andy said the majority of drivers wanted. I found it interesting that Peter Roberts said he told the meeting that this is what the NESCCA national series tried for year and it failed.
My question then Andy is how many drivers knew what you were going to propose before the NARRC meeting. I do not see any evidence that the proposal was shared with the IT community before it was presented.
Andy, I do not question your motives, but I am pretty disappointed in the manner that this abomination was perpetrated.

[K_Anderson]

personally I don't care about the money as do many I believe. Winning a $100 at the end of the year has no importance. I would rather receive a Trophy that I would be proud to display. Low subscribed classes should not recieve the same awards as the large.

I would like to see people winning real trophy's, but then that opens up another pandoras box. How do you justify giving out a fancy trophy for a 3 car class. Some of the classes barely have enough cars to declare a loser.

They should have trophys that go up in quality as the car count increases for the race.

bottom line, we are not in this for the prize money, But that doesn't mean we should not receive a cash payout or quality trophies equal to what the payout would have been.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Wow. That is all I have to say. Abomination Dick? Kinda strong I think.

All I did was present the feedback that the drivers reps collected. I personally wanted to pay out only to the top 3 and not water down the payouts. Self serving? Sure, but not what I was told the majority wanted.

The NARRC committee took the info and voted. All we did was collect the data. If not enough drivers were contacted, then the drivers advocates didn't do the job they volunteered to do.

Stephen, I do not think that anything was posted in Pit Talk...but it would have needed to be posted in all 4 regional mags as this is a NARRC thing. Could it have been done? You bet.

The NARRC committee designed a plan and some people stepped up to help. I think this is a case of you shooting at the messenger. All I did was collect the info and present it to the NARRC committee in public forum for all to hear and debate.

Could it have been done better? Always. Write your letts to the NARRC committee. I guess late feedback is better than none at all.

[dickita15]

Wow. That is all I have to say. Abomination Dick? Kinda strong I think.

Maybe so, but it is my opinion and few people have accused me of not expressing my opinion.
What has been missing from this thread is a single driver posting “I knew what was being presented and supported it” or even “although I was not in favor I knew what was being presented before the meeting”

Could it have been done better? Always. Write your letts to the NARRC committee. I guess late feedback is better than none at all.

I will be writing the NARRC committee but I resent the implication that I and others have been derelict by being late in our input. From my knowledge there was no way to know that abolishing the points fund to create a unbudgeted administrative slush fund was under consideration so there was no way to give input on the subject.

[Andy Bettencourt]

I guess we just are on different wavelengths. All that was done was a gathering of feedback and the presentation of said feedback in a public forum at the NARRC meetings. Opportunity to weigh in on that feedback - and provide additional feedback was certainly there at that meeting.

If I were on the NARRC committee, I guess I would resent the implacation that they have created a pocket of money that is guaranteed to be wasted in an irresponsible way. How about we give them a chance before we judge? Question the issue? No problem but it seems like in your mind it's a done deal and can't be successful.

I'm done. Seems like a lot of pre-judgement here. Having said that, I guess I don't see why the money fund couldn't be put back should the majority ask for it. I will be voting for top-3 only and more money for the people who podium in their class.

[Tkczecheredflag]

Andy - At the NARRC Banquet, I do remember you mentioning of "top 3 in points" qualify for the Money Fund, but I have no recollection of "we are abolishing the fund", being mentioned - Did I miss that?

It looks like we sent out 90 checks last year for 2007. Since this group of 90 are very representative of drivers contributing to the Money Fund (by that I mean we are registering for many of the events and accumulating points to qualify for the money), they are probally very representative of the "mind set", to continue the fund or not. Did anyone reach out to he group of 90 (the biggest NARRC supporters) for their input?

I beleive that at least 2 drivers from ITA (1/3 of the money fund drivers) were not represented at the first meeting. I got to the meeting late - don't recall the ground swell for "no more money fund " being mentioned, and other than the NARRC Banquet, do not recall a summary of "action points" being shared with the larger group - I certainly didn't hear "no money" at the Banquet - Did I miss that too?. This was the only summary I was aware of.

Not to step on K_Anderson but the NARRC Championship Trophy's that I have are awesome already - Just a pain to keep polishing .

[Andy Bettencourt]

Guys,

I suggest you contact the NARRC Committe and your individual drivers rep if you feel like you were not 'heard'.

Each group had a volunteer who was supposed to reach out to the competitors and weigh back in to me so I could summarize the feedback. Those volunteers are listed in this thread.

[dickita15]

Andy, I am sorry if not agreeing with what you and your committee have done hurts you feelings. I am sure you operated in good faith but from where I sit I see no evidence that this plan was put out for input. I watched the tape, I read the threads, and personally had no problem with any of the items discussed in those forums, including abolishing the points fund assuming the assessment went away with the fund. I think for you to say that we had a chance to go to the meeting to argue against this is disingenuous when I can find no one who knew this was a proposal.
One of the wonders of the NARRC series is that it has always run with the smallest possible overhead and administration. I know firsthand how out of large and out of control administrations can get despite good people with good intentions. NARRC has always been a refreshing exception. What do you expect me to expect when the funding is increase by a factor of 6 and no budget or guidance offered. Why should I not believe that we will end up with $14,000 worth of NARRC tee shirts?

[dominojd]

Guys,

I suggest you contact the NARRC Committe and your individual drivers rep if you feel like you were not 'heard'.

Rob,

I am not happy with the Narrc Money payout fund being dissolved.

Thanks for your concern.

[cpm motorsports]

Not to step on K_Anderson but the NARRC Championship Trophy's that I have are awesome already - Just a pain to keep polishing .

Always wondered what Tim did in his spare time. :cool:

[Andy Bettencourt]

Dick,

Then let me change my phrasing for you. I delivered a REPORT at the NARRC Town Hall in CT based on data collected by drivers reps. The NARRC Committee did with that info what they thought the drivers wanted.

Joe,

If you don't think this is a decent medium to RECEIVE info, then don't use it to GIVE your feedback. Send in your feedback and reasoning to the NARRC committee at the address provided in the thread.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Let me ask Dick this:

When you were on the NARRC committee, what did you do to 'publish' your ideas prior to the following years implementation?

I don't recall any in recent memory, and certainly not last year, hence the new driver involvment.

[dickita15]

No Andy we did not publish an agenda however over the ten years or so that I sat in those meetings in a couple of capacities we had proposals that affect a number of racers and often we did not take action when requests were submitted until we were sure that the affected drivers knew about it.
You said feedback on this issue was collected and reference 2 threads and the meeting video which do not mention the subject, then you say it was the responsibility of the your committee members, the individual group reps to get the feedback.
I am still waiting for someone to say: “I knew what was being presented and supported it” or even “although I was not in favor I knew what was being presented before the meeting”.

[dominojd]

Joe,

If you don't think this is a decent medium to RECEIVE info, then don't use it to GIVE your feedback. Send in your feedback and reasoning to the NARRC committee at the address provided in the thread.

This is a great medium to reach people. I really wish I would have been reached before reading this info on the NARRC web page. All it would have taken would to send a simple email to all NARRC particpants in favor not in favor and if it came back the way it is then we would just live with it because appearently the masses agreed with the outcome.

And why Andy do you always take stuff like this as a personal attack? No one is attacking you. We are actually greatful that you and others voluteer to deal with the BS that goes on behind the scenes.

Chill dude before you make yourself sick.