Welded seat rails

[Commy]

I have to contend with a few rust spots on the floor board of my ITB VW. They are in both corners were the seat rails are mounted to the rocker box. I don't think it is that big of a deal to remove the driver's side rail because I am going to need a way to fab up a mount for the seat. If I am wrong about this, let me know. The passenger side is a bit more difficult for me to understand. Do I have to remount the rails when I am done fixing the rust spots? Can I remove the two front seat guides that contain the locking pins? I ask this because they are a part of the seat mounting and have no structural meaning to the chasie. It would be a lot easier if they had simply bolted these to the car instead of welding them, but it is what it is.

Here is an image to give you an idea of what I am talking about, and also what happens when you take a northern car and try and convert it to an IT car.

[lateapex911]

Well, you know my stance on this, but to get the ball rolling, I'll give it to you anyway. (I know you're looking for opinions, and just want to do what's right)

I think that you are free and clear on the drivers side, but I see no such allowance on the pass side. IMO, the rail and such must remain.

[Spinnetti]

Cut off rails, fix rust, weld back on... its just repair.... What's the issue there?

(PS, too much of my 20's was spent welding rusted out Northern Swiss cheese Rabbits and Sciroccos!)

[Gary L]

I think that you are free and clear on the drivers side, but I see no such allowance on the pass side. IMO, the rail and such must remain.

I disagree... the rails can be tossed, IMO. From page 339 of the GCR (9.1.3.D.9.e):

e. Front passenger seat, rear seat back, rear seat bottom cushion(s), sun visors, seat belts and their attaching hardware and bracketry may be removed.

Why wouldn't the front passenger seat rails be part of the attaching hardware and bracketry? Or am I misunderstanding the question?

[JeffYoung]

I agree. Looks like a bracket to me.

[Knestis]

Fair question but I'm of the opinion that the point at which one is cutting, one is removing body structure. Otherwise, where do we stop?

Admittedly, this is a conservative position but take a look at how much metal touches where the rear sit perches...



If one suggests that those ratcheted rails can go, then the bits that support the rear seat latches (top of strut) can go too, right? And the "shelf" that supports the front of the rear seat ? And the floor where the back of the seat sits? And any piece of the pillars, roof, floor, and inner bulkheads that include threaded bosses for visors or belts.

The question, once the cutting begins, is where to stop.

It's been a while since I shared this (very good, IMO) example of how these things go wrong: Back in the TransAm of the '70s, some clever person wrote a rule that suspension pieces (like A-arms) could be "lightened" and "reinforced." Some even more clever bloke decided that meant he could "lighten" an arm down to nothing, and reinforce the resulting airspace with whatever tubes and plates he wanted...

K

[JeffYoung]

Good points.

I guess again this is one of those areas where there is some subjectivity. To me, it would be clear what I could and couldn't do. I could remove that rail on the floor and be perfectly fine. It's the bracket that holds the seat in. Could I remove the tab on the strut tower? Sure, I guess I could but that is starting to stretch it. Beyond that, I don't see anything that is performing a "sole function" of seat bracket.

Thoughts?

[Ron Earp]

Chop that rusted stuff out of your floor, repair it without re-enforcing anything, and move on with your build. If anything the seat rail would add a bit of structural integrity to the floor pan and I'd probably keep it, but I can't imagine that anyone is going to give you grief if it gets torched.

[Knestis]

Audience says...

K