April NHIS School/Regional

[gran racing]

Deleted post as it has nothing to do with the NHIS school regional. Besides, I can call Andy names offline.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Do what you want man. You read it one way, I read it another. Having supported the events more than 20 times over the past 2 years, I can assure you that I am not 'speculating' as to what most instructors demand as minimums.

For wepsbee, don't be surprised if there aren't many people who will ride with you if you don't put at least a 5 point harness in there.

And I read your post - I debated with you your definition of the word 'should'. Guess you missed that.

Let's agree to disagree and try and err on the side of what will probably happen instead of what might happen - for the noobs sake.

[dominojd]

So you are asking why Ritchie made some less than ideal decisions. I love the guy but have you ever met him.

So what are you saying Dick?

[wepsbee]

I have ordered and will be installing a new 5 point harness. I will however only have a stock OEM seat installed with OEM belts. I do not want to put anyone at risk"ever". If this is not safe, we will not do it!!!!!

[Andy Bettencourt]

Official response from Ian on SCDA equipment:

Belts - whatever the drivers side has the passenger side MUST have.

Seats - whatever the drivers side has it is highly suggested that the passenger side has. This is what most instructors require. It IS however, up to the individual instructor WRT to the seat. If no instructors will ride due to non-matching seat specs, then 'lead - follow' instruction will be required.

In summation for a race car with 5 point belts - stock belts NOT acceptable on passenger side. Stock seat ACCEPTABLE on individual instuctor basis but not recommended.

[wepsbee]

Andy,
thanks for the info, 5 point harness due tomorrow, I will try and get a new seat but that might be tough. If not I can live with lead/follow as any instruction is better than none.

[lateapex911]

You know, I have to ask....and i'm sure I'll get shouted down as being stupid, but...

Why is it so important to have equal restraints? Why do guys gat all up tight about it?

I mean, instructors (me) get in street cars with lowered suspensions, hotted up motors with 4 or 500 hp, and we go around the track with guys who have next to zero track experience, who we don't know, and we're both in stock belts. But, if that guy has a non stock seat, and has attached a harness, we have issues? Why?

Is it because we think the guy will drive to kill if he thinks he's protected better than stock? do we REALLY think that the judgment of a new driver is so consistent?

I think there are guys who are pussy foots WITH a harness, and guys who will scare you without.... and vice versa.

And I certainly don't think there's any hard and fast correlation.


...heck, a lot of track day guys put a better seat in, and a harness set up, so they can actually use the steering wheel for steering...as a passenger, guess what? I don't need my hands for that..I can prop myself just fine using my hands.

or am I missing something?

[gran racing]

Why is it so important to have equal restraints? Why do guys gat all up tight about it?

Obviously I wondered this when going back and forth with Andy. It would be okay for me to jump in Dan's car with stock belts and seat if he used a stock seat and belts?

I've gotten in some very powerful cars that we both had an aftermarket belts/seat and after a few laps didn't feel comfortable. It wasn't the seat or belts that gave me that feeling.

[wepsbee]

I had another thought ( happens once in awhile), if restraints and safety equipment must be the same for driver and passenger then I would assume that a window net must be installed also, I havent heard anything about that, what do you guys think?

[RSTPerformance]

Jake/Dave and others...

I think that the rule is a good rule. Generally from what I have seen many (not all) people with racing seats and/or 5pt belts have roll bars of some sort. In an accident with racing belts you move a lot, with street belts you move WAY further. I think that the racing belts will greatly increase your safety of hitting the rollbar with your head.

I also think that the the rule enforces the general thought of taking care of your passengers safety is more important than your own safety.

Raymond

[lateapex911]

Jake/Dave and others...

I think that the rule is a good rule. Generally from what I have seen many (not all) people with racing seats and/or 5pt belts have roll bars of some sort. In an accident with racing belts you move a lot, with street belts you move WAY further. I think that the racing belts will greatly increase your safety of hitting the rollbar with your head.

I also think that the the rule enforces the general thought of taking care of your passengers safety is more important than your own safety.

Raymond

Raymond, from my limited experience, I do not see either correlation. I don't see the cage and belt one for sure, and the *idea* that somebody is going to take care of their passenger better because they supplied equal protection is fine, (if we knew the mentality of every driver, and they were all the same), but I fear having the passenger have better protection could backfire, with certain drivers, who decide (unconsciously, of course, we're talking good judgment and red mist here, after all) if the "risks" are lower, the chances can be taken.

[raffaelli]

Geez man, I still have a stupid grin on my face. I feel like a just got some for the first time.

[gran racing]

You did.

[rhygin]

I think that I still have the same grin