Question for all ITC drivers

[Ed Funk]

What other classes do you routinely get grouped with, and do you feel that has any connection to your desire to stay in ITC?

In New England we're put in with the Special Me's and it tends to be a horror show. ITC fields have declined to practically nothing (1-2 cars per race last year). We have been going out of area to race and find fields of 8-10 cars at those tracks where ITC is in a group of other IT classes.

I don't have anything against SM or SSM, I think everybody who can afford to rent a car and go out and run into moving and still objects should have a place to play, I just don't want to be on the playground!:026:

[jjjanos]

The last two groupings for MARRS were SRX7/ITC and then, last year, ITB/ITC. The B/C grouping works well.

[spnkzss]

The B/C grouping works well.

Agreed. SM was horrible and SRX7 took some playing and complaining to become good.

[Andy Bettencourt]

This year ITC is grouped with SM in New England. I think that you will find a lot fewer SM's in your hair than SSM's by virture of that little bit more speed.

Up here, we don't have enough ITB/ITC cars to have their own run group.

[dave parker]

Ed
Yes, the 2005 class grouping of SRX7 and ITC caused me to leave ITC and go to H Production for the 2006 season.
Lots of reasons, but mostly I got tired of idiots beating up my racecar and the Stewards doing nothing about it.
Apparently the same class grouping was alot better in 2006, but I attribute that to the efforts of the drivers rep (John Burkhard) lobbying the Stewards for a "split grid" start and some familiarity of the drivers in the two classes having run together for a year.
For the most part I have found that the DC Region Production guys do not want to hit each other.
cheers
Dave Parker
WDCR HP#97
2007 MARRS HP Champion

[jjjanos]

In the way of a general gripe/complaint....

Stewards are no different than other people - they don't want to make waves. "Minor" contact isn't going to draw their RFA unless something else provokes it.

Drivers are no different than other people - they don't want make waves. "Minor" contact isn't going to draw a protest unless something else provokes it.

Everybody see the problem? Don't expect the stewards to willingly be jerks.

Ya don't want to get hit by a special me... adopt your own zero-tolerance policy. FILE the bloody protest when someone hits you.

[joeg]

I will (and have run) with anyone--including ITA,ITS, ITE and AS.

It all depends on the size of the group, the track and the relative mix. We used to run all the time with SM, but now they are just too huge a group and get to run by themselves. Small bore P cars work with us too.

The most fun were wet races with the SM(s)!!

[Ed Funk]

In the way of a general gripe/complaint....

Stewards are no different than other people - they don't want to make waves. "Minor" contact isn't going to draw their RFA unless something else provokes it.

Drivers are no different than other people - they don't want make waves. "Minor" contact isn't going to draw a protest unless something else provokes it.

Everybody see the problem? Don't expect the stewards to willingly be jerks.

Ya don't want to get hit by a special me... adopt your own zero-tolerance policy. FILE the bloody protest when someone hits you.

We've tried talking to the drivers in the paddock, what happens is you suddenly get 15 SM drivers in your face yelling and generally being beligerant, not going to be a pretty scene if I have to go to the "discussion" with my fender rolling tool in hand!

We've tried the paper route a couple of times, one time the steward didn't even want to give us the protest form (this was before he knew anything about the issue). Another time there were no witnesses! Even tho the corner was busy waving a yellow for our incident! So that one went no where.

We've approached the comp board chair and RE well in advance of the meeting setting the groups for the coming year, with our concerns.

So,jjanos what else would you suggest?

[Andy Bettencourt]

We've approached the comp board chair and RE well in advance of the meeting setting the groups for the coming year, with our concerns.

Ed, you weren't around last year so you missed a serious crack-down on conact within SM and SSM. Drivers policing drivers from the corner stations. Logging of any contact (NER at NHIS specifically) and meetings to explain the issues.

I think you will find many more people willing to help you this year.

[jjjanos]

We've tried the paper route a couple of times, one time the steward didn't even want to give us the protest form (this was before he knew anything about the issue). Another time there were no witnesses! Even tho the corner was busy waving a yellow for our incident! So that one went no where.

re: not giving you the form:
Do the supps or the GCR require a specific form? I think not. "A protest shall be made in writing, specifying which sections of the GCR or other applicable rules are alleged to have been violated, and signed by the protestor. It shall be addressed to the Chief Steward and delivered to him in person or to the Assistant Chief Steward at the control point for the race."

If the CS or ACS won't accept a protest, then file paper work on them too.

Here's a protest form (see attachment)

Accepting a protest is NOT an optional matter for the CS or ACS. They SHALL receive protests and forward them to the SOM.

There are ALWAYS witnesses - the two drivers involved. There ALWAYS is additional evidence that can be reviewed if the witness statements conflict - the damage to the cars or a video tape from your car, his car or another car. It might not be conclusive, but it is there.

Similarly, a Corner Station might have only one witness to an incident (such as a pass) and the CS or ACS won't take independent action on that. YOU, however, are the second witness that overrides the other driver saying - no I didn't do that.

[Ed Funk]

What I'm trying to get accross is that we have tried several methods of dealing with this, so far it's been an exercize in frustration.

The time that it was "he said, she said" there was no video no witness and no action. This year will be different, there will be two cameras in both cars and there will be a blizzard of paper!

[Ed Funk]

Ed, you weren't around last year so you missed a serious crack-down on conact within SM and SSM. Drivers policing drivers from the corner stations. Logging of any contact (NER at NHIS specifically) and meetings to explain the issues.

I think you will find many more people willing to help you this year.

We were around at the end of the season, and it was still a slug fest! In one weekend 4 SM and 1 itc car destroyed. I know that shit happens but some times it's just piss poor driving and/or judgement.

[Andy Bettencourt]

We were around at the end of the season, and it was still a slug fest! In one weekend 4 SM and 1 itc car destroyed. I know that shit happens but some times it's just piss poor driving and/or judgement.

But is that about SSM and ITC drivers or is that about a blind corner that exists during chicane/chicane at NHIS?

Either way, it is something NER is proactively trying to self-police.

[RSTPerformance]

Ed-

I know your fustrations with SM, and ITB... I think as others mentioned you really need to make sure you have a zero tolerance and video to prove who was in the wrong.

The weekend you reference was not a good one, the accident involving the ITC car could have happened with anyone and is more an issue of an unsafe corner rather than an incident with unsafe drivers. If anyone could have prevented the incident it would have been the ITC driver IMO.

Personally the best drivers I have run against are ITB (of course) and then the SM drivers. ITA is a close third

Raymond "Try running with the yo yo's in the big bore classes!!! Yikes, now they are scary!!!" Blethen

[iambhooper]

we are usuall grouped with ITA, ITB, SSC, IT7 and SRX7 (when available) in the sprints. in the regionals, and the enduro's, you can through in the SRF's, SM, ITS and ITR rides.

we have between 2 and 4 ITC cars at any one weekend.

[JLawton]

Ed,
You should request (not that they would do it) to be thrown in with either ITS/ITB or with ITA. Adding a few ITC cars to the mix isn't going to upset the balance much. It's not like the ITC drivers are newbies and will decide the outcome of another class.

[lateapex911]

I thought the old ITA ITC mix was pretty good. Speed differennce between the classses was enough to separate and not be constantly tangling, but not that much of a speed difference to be dangerous. And maybe there's a lap lost for the ITC guys, but that's splitting hairs.

[shwah]

I have yet to see an ITC car race with me here in CenDiv. Our typical grouping is ITR,S,A,B,C,SMT,SSB,SSC all together. Never seen an ITC, or SSx car on the track with me.

[Tkczecheredflag]

Ed - You know that when they started grouping "C" with SSM that was the beginning of the end for me in ITC. Robert Karl, SR - SSM- took me out in the CRX going into Big Bend. I left him enough room to drive my 28 foot enclosed and my Hemi into to T-1, despite that fact tht he wasn't faster in the turns. He didn't like the fact that we could run competively with him - so he took me out. The "punt" cost me the race, won by John V's Bunny (well desrved I might ad, we were having a blast). Karl, tells his son in front of me, after the race that, "I needed to learn that racing was a contact sport." If you don't think I felt like a dick that I didn't protest him in impound after hearing that - well you get the picture. I heard from one of the officials that weeks previous he either put his car or another car on there roof (having trouble with the detail) - supposedly he was "being watched" - being watched - you gotta be kidding me. Okay - so he was another one of the beloved Miata divers, saving SCCA - our Savior - the new heart and soul of the club, and we were just ITC puke. Good luck my friend - It might be interesting to pick up a Protege and bump draft that 'remo" into T-1.
So long live Maita and SCCA - we are truly blessed - Right?

[Andy Bettencourt]

So long live Maita and SCCA - we are truly blessed - Right?

Love you to death bro but to make a blanket statment like that about a model and the SCCA is bogus. You yourself took the blame by not protesting a singular driver in that instance.

There are bad drivers in every class. There are good drivers who have driven badly (guilty) at times. Let's not blame the car for a drivers actions.