Breaking News from LRP

[Andy Bettencourt]

I see no way how two races so close in Division doesn't hurt both in terms of attendance.

NARRC guys would go to Pocono and NERRC guys would to LRP.

Except guess what? Most NERRC guys don't run LRP, they hang at NHIS...........and at $425 for the weekend, you take out another whole group of racers, no matter the 'value'.

[Greg Amy]

Andy, you really are hung up on "that NARRC thing". Personally, I don't give a flying flub what series it is, no more than I care what region hosts the event. I look at the calendar, I check my availability and pocketbook, and choose whether or not I want to race that weekend. Whether it's NARRC, or NERRC, or NYSRRC, or ACBDEFG, or eeny-meeny-miney-moe has absolutely zero effect on whether I race. And, yes, that also applied back in 2006. If my schedule and preference is coincidental, I'll go. If not, I won't.

I race for fun, because I enjoy it. Not because I feel a driving compulsion to collect the whole set.

If this July 3/4/5 LRP event happens, that means there will be 5 local races scheduled in July. I will probably only attend two of them. At this point - early in the game, I admit - that will likely be Pocono and New Jersey, maybe the Glen if I'm feeling flush that month. That means I am planning to intentionally skip both NER (my home region) events; are both of them NARRC/NERRC/WHATEVER events? This is purely coincidental, as I *don't look at that kind of stuff* when I'm deciding on which events to attend. You look at my calendar and it says "SCCA - NHIS" or "SCCA Double - Pocono", not "SCCA, New England Region, NARRC Points, NHIS."

BTW, had LRP pre-scheduled that weekend, and Tri-Regions found they lost a prior Pocono date then decided to hold a replacement event on a Thursday and Friday prior to the LRP weekend, I'd be skipping the Pocono date. Yes, EVEN if it was a NARRC event (horrors!)

I don't know who thinks this is all a good idea. In my not-so-humble opinion, it's a terrible idea.

I suspect I'm not alone.

[gran racing]

Exactly what Greg said.

[Andy Bettencourt]

There is no debating that guys who are running for NARRC points will follow the NARRC sanction. I know I will. There are plenty of guys who just race where and when it is 'right' but the fact remains this will split the group of racers in an already watered-down market.

I think its short sighted to not be aware of who your customers are when you hold an 'competing' event.

It's just not a good idea.

(On edit: we could debate what makes up the 2 + 2 that equals 4...but we can all agree that this '4' ain't good for anyone.

[dominojd]

What Dave just said.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Come on Joe!. Aren't you running a NARRC schedule with some extras thrown in...just like me (IT-Fest, etc)?

I too, have no care in the world what REGION hosts an event...but I sure as hell care what series it is. You guys are kidding yourselves if you think there aren't guys who work their schedule around one - or both - of these series.

Yes, you guys choose the events that suit you, independent of the series. Plenty of us choose the events that suit us, INSIDE a series.

Ya'll have to understand all the work that has gone into a revamp of the NARRC this offseason. Rules, schedule, points, - all gone over and tweaked per driver request. The reason this issue is important to some of us is that this one issue has the ability to hurt two regions...one of the specific problems we *tried* to design out of the system this off-season.

Again, we can argue all day about WHAT pisses us off about two events on one day, but we sure as heck can agree that the result is less than desirable to us for a variety of reasons.

[wdether]

Regardless on how you feel about running at Pocono, there is something to consider about the Pocono event. Track time. No track gives you less track time than Limerock. In addition to the double regional at Pocono there will be a Pro-IT race, adding 40 minutes to the total.

I think it is a lose-lose proposition to hold regional races at Limerock and Pocono on the same weekend.

[JohnRW]

Re: holding concurrent events - you guys need to check the GCR and SCCA Operations Manual regarding distance restrictions for Regional races held within the same division. The rule used to be "200 miles", I think.

Unless that's changed, there probably isn't a chance in hell that you could shedule a Regional at Pocono and another one at LRP. Regional-National ? Yes. Regional-School ? Yes. Regional-Regional ? Nope.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Food for thought

There is track time and there is track time 'value'. This LRP double should afford 80 minutes of track time to the racers whearas a 'satndard' double at Pocono only typically pays 74 minutes.

Now on a dollar per minute examination, it's different. As an example using last years Pocono NARRC race plus the projected Pro IT and an estimate on LRP times based on last year...

Pocono Double: 12 minute qual + 22 minute race x 2 = 74 minutes of track time for $310
Pro IT: 12 minute qual + 40 minute race = 52 minutes for $200
52+74=126 for $510
$510 / 126 = $4.05 per minute

LRP: True double so lets assume two singles put together
20 minute practice/qual + 20 minute race = 40 minutes x 2 days
(Estimate from reliable source) $425/80 = $5.31 per minute

Even at $300 for the Pro IT race, the Pocono event comes in at $4.84 per minute - with an opportunity to win it all back...at $200 it should be a GREAT series. http://www.njrrs.com/proit.html

Then you figure in series preference, track/facility preference, distance preference, etc and you get your answers.

[dickita15]

Re: holding concurrent events - you guys need to check the GCR and SCCA Operations Manual regarding distance restrictions for Regional races held within the same division. The rule used to be "200 miles", I think.

Unless that's changed, there probably isn't a chance in hell that you could shedule a Regional at Pocono and another one at LRP. Regional-National ? Yes. Regional-School ? Yes. Regional-Regional ? Nope.

John,
I see nothing in the GCR that restricts the scheduling of regional races.

[JohnRW]

Dick - I think it was in the Ops Manual. Don't have one handy right now.

[wdether]

John,
I see nothing in the GCR that restricts the scheduling of regional races.

I don't think there is anything in the GCR or the Ops manual about distance between races, but it just isn't a good idea to have regional races at Limerock and Pocono on the same weekend.

[dickita15]

I don’t disagree with you Bill, particularly when you look at the rest of the July schedule.

[dpc]

Has anyone actually heard or seen in writing what the actual start date is for this new surface, the start date might not interfere with the MoHud race. just asking.....Hope to see you all in NHMS in April. dave

[rcc85]

I'm just looking forward to running an event at Pocono that should have warm weather. I want to support that weekend so Tri-Region will keep a regional on that date. The weather for the May double at Pocono almost always been cold and/or wet.

My only complaint is that the first race at NJMP is also in July and I really, really want to do that one as well (brand new track and about an hour and a half closer to me than any existing track).

If I do the Glen race (and I am thinking about it), I could blow my whole budget just in July!!

Too many races, so little money!!

Bob Clifton
#05 ITB Dodge Daytona

[dickita15]

Has anyone actually heard or seen in writing what the actual start date is for this new surface, the start date might not interfere with the MoHud race. just asking.....Hope to see you all in NHMS in April. dave

Starts the day after Memorial Day

[JohnRW]

Found a copy of the Operations Manual amid the debris here.

Section 5.9 "Club Racing Schedule Procedures"

5.9.4: "Normally, no two race events will be held on the same day within a reasonable day's driving distance unless the Regions involved agree. (This does not apply to National races)"

Not quite what I remembered...and there is a certain ambiguity in that language...but you'd have a hard time constructing an argument that LRP <> The Poke is greater than a "reasonable day's driving distance".

[Jeremy Billiel]

I wish Brian would come back on and give us an update. However, when push comes to shove I believe that the LRP event will still win. Regardless of what the fee is people will still pay and go to LRP just for the simple fact that there is new pavement. We still don't know what LRP gave us for options, but if the NER did this it would not be very friendly for sure.

[RSTPerformance]

I have been away for a while, but still trying to check in once a week or so... Hope everyone is doing well!!!

This is certainly an interesting thread...

I can say that our entire family certainly has choosen races depending on the series, especially when we are actually running a series. To me it is far more important to race a "series event" than just any old race. Example: I probably would never run an event at NHIS (NHMS) unless it was a NARRC event or an enduro. However I do have to admit that this year we would like to do a Glenn race and a NJMP race and neither would have anything to do with a series, but the actual event itself.

As for NER scheduling a race in conflict with Pocono is not impressive at all (Unless it is a National!)and I certainly hope it does not effect the Pocono event, but I don't see how it wouldn't unless it is a National, maybe it is?

If NARRC changes the schedule "for the good of the series" then that group isn't any better than the NER group and it would really make me think twice about that series. I was very disapointed in NARRC last year and I was impressed with the changes. I hope that the changes they made keep it going in the correct direction and the series stays with the Pocono event.

For what it is worth, I wont be at Pocono or LRP in July but if it was in the budget I would be a Pocono.

Raymond "30+ now, and still can't spell" Blethen

[Magical Trevor]

Looking at Lime Rock's published schedules (basically Pro and The Club), May 16-17 is open. NESCCA only has a National going on at Summit Saturday the 17th, and LRP probably only has car clubs those days; maybe dates could be swapped? This wouldn't have the potential for a double as July would, but a NARRC race would still be possible.
No idea about the school; maybe July 4 for the drivers that don't go to Pocono (if LRP would let us keep that after a move to May-what else are they gonna do with the unmuffled holiday?... unless they move their July 17 Test/Tune date there)...