Spare Tire

[toddgreene]

I'm trying to lose the spare tire arpoud my waist and replace it with one in the rear of the car.

Do I have to find the exact original OEM spare or will any 13" Honda wheel and tire work (reasonable) in my Honda?

In the meantime, I have written the CRB to request allowances for IT and SS cars to substitute 25# of ballast for a spare tire if applicable.

Thanks,

Todd

[Xian]

I would imagine that it needs to be a spare tire that is identical in size and dimensions to the spare tire your car came with...

I don't like the #25 idea. The spare tire "allowance" is simply that. It allows you to leave your spare tire in the car... a substitution to alternate ballast is unnecessary, imo.

Regards,
Christian

[toddgreene]

Thanks,

My thoughts on the allowance are for safety.
The legally mounted ballast may be more safely attached than a tire.

Todd

[shwah]

You can attach a spare tire safely more easily than you can obtain or make a chunk of ballast IMO.

[tom91ita]

You can attach a spare tire safely more easily than you can obtain or make a chunk of ballast IMO.

my understanding of the rules is that you can NOT add additional bolting to secure the spare tire. for those of us with hatchbacks where we can see the spare, it is a potential safety issue. we can all decide if the stock mounting style bolt is appropriate.

that being said, i have seen many cars with additional bolting to secure the spare (and i personally don't care). i have wondered about making a piece of "roll-cage" that would extend back over the spare to prevent it from moving.

[Greg Amy]

my understanding of the rules is that you can NOT add additional bolting to secure the spare tire.

Technically to the rules, that is correct. However, my local Chief Scru made me add additional bolts, in a manner similar to the ballast rules.

Frankly, that a good thing, 'cause once you REALLY look at that silly taffy-like wingbolt they have holding in the spare (normally covered in panels, carpets, and a seatback "firewall") you recognize that just ain't right...

[dickita15]

my understanding of the rules is that you can NOT add additional bolting to secure the spare tire.

I see no reason why it would be illegal to add additional fasteners to secure the spare tire. Fasteners are free as long as they serve the same purpose. That purpose in this case is to secure the tire.

[jjjanos]

I would imagine that it needs to be a spare tire that is identical in size and dimensions to the spare tire your car came with...

A quick look at the rule book says...

9.1.3.D.10.c. Spare wheels and tires may be removed.

It doesn't say you can replace it with anything other than what came on the car.

So, I would say that a strict interpretation of the rule says you are correct. E.g. If all of the cars on a spec line came with a space saver, you have to run a space saver, but if one came with a cast iron spare, you could slog the 200 lbs of iron into the rear of the car.

[spnkzss]

A quick look at the rule book says...

9.1.3.D.10.c. Spare wheels and tires may be removed.

It doesn't say you can replace it with anything other than what came on the car.

So, I would say that a strict interpretation of the rule says you are correct. E.g. If all of the cars on a spec line came with a space saver, you have to run a space saver, but if one came with a cast iron spare, you could slog the 200 lbs of iron into the rear of the car.

Which is a shame because the ONLY reason I keep a mini spare for the Honda in the trailer is so that if I or any friends have an.... "incident".... we can take the race tire out and put the spare on. It normally moves a little better onto the trailer with a nice mini tire then a crunched wide race wheel.

[x-ring]

I would imagine that it needs to be a spare tire that is identical in size and dimensions to the spare tire your car came with...

Does it say somewhere the OEM spare tire has to be full of OEM air?

There is a line in the GCR that states something to the effect that a permittted modification cannot perform an additional, prohibitted, function. There was a case a while back where a competitor made his right rear cage mounting plate out of 3" thick steel. The first court ruled that the permitted modification (adding a roll cage mounting plate) was compliant, but making one of those plates 3" thick was an 'additional, prohibited, function' -- ballast in a pllace other than where ballast is allowed.

I'm not sure this rule would cover this 'clever' non-compliant balllast problem, because leaving the spare tire (filled with water?) in place is not a modification.

I'm just sayin'

[Andy Bettencourt]

Does it say somewhere the OEM spare tire has to be full of OEM air?

There is a line in the GCR that states something to the effect that a permittted modification cannot perform an additional, prohibitted, function. There was a case a while back where a competitor made his right rear cage mounting plate out of 3" thick steel. The first court ruled that the permitted modification (adding a roll cage mounting plate) was compliant, but making one of those plates 3" thick was an 'additional, prohibited, function' -- ballast in a pllace other than where ballast is allowed.

I'm not sure this rule would cover this 'clever' non-compliant balllast problem, because leaving the spare tire (filled with water?) in place is not a modification.

I'm just sayin'

Must be winter!

Ty, I fall back on this: Where does it say you can SUBSTITUTE the air for anything else? Guys, saying you can fill the spare tire with anything but air is rediculous. It violates a few different rules.

[jjjanos]

Ty, I fall back on this: Where does it say you can SUBSTITUTE the air for anything else? Guys, saying you can fill the spare tire with anything but air is rediculous. It violates a few different rules.

Which rules? Please indicate where the rules mention with what I may fill my tires? Yes, they don't explicitely say you may fill them with anything but air, but then again, the rules don't explicitely say you can fill them with anything other than the PSI with which they came from the factory. So you can use any tire you want, as long as it is filled to 32PSI?

As for swapping out the spare, oopsie... Need to change my opinion...

9.1.3.D.7.a Any wheel/tire may be used within the following limitations:

9.1.3.D.7.a.5 Any wheel stud, bolt, and or nut is permitted.

Where does this specify the 4 tires on the ground. So, if the spare tire meets the rest of the definitions in the tire/wheel section, it should be a legal tire. In addition, you may use any bolt or nut to attach that spare tire. Extra mounting brackets, however, would be a no-no.

One might be able to prohibit concrete tires on the "prohibited function" rule like the two-ton cage mount, but the way around that is to use ANY wheel that meets 9.1.3.D.7.a.1 - size limitations, no knock-offs and it must be made of metal - say a heavy wheel with 100 lbs of lead as wheel weights.

[Andy Bettencourt]

And with that post, I am out of the discussion.

[Greg Amy]

Please indicate where the rules mention with what I may fill my tires?

Two points:

1) The direct answer to your question above is IIDSYCTYC, plain and simple. You are correct, the rules do not allow the use of anything but regular ole atmospheric air in the tires, 'cause that's what the manufacturer delivered it with. Arguing anything different is silly.

However, while we do not have the equipment to determine if your tire is filled with either air or some other gas (or mixture thereof), we do have the capability to determine if it's filled with any type of non-gaseous substance. If you want to cheat by using nitrogen or some other gas, you'll get a pass. But it's still cheating (and yes, I do it).

2) In reality, regardless of the rules, it's enforced in Tech that you cannot fill your spare tire with a non-gaseous substance. After the '06 ARRC win I was forced to unbolt the spare tire (held in place by two safety-wired 1/2" bolts) so the tech inspector could heft in in his hands and verify it was not filled with, for instance, water or concrete (it was actually flat...) Same thing has happened twice to me during pre-season annual tech.

[Jake]

As for swapping out the spare, oopsie... Need to change my opinion...

9.1.3.D.7.a Any wheel/tire may be used within the following limitations:

9.1.3.D.7.a.5 Any wheel stud, bolt, and or nut is permitted.

Where does this specify the 4 tires on the ground. So, if the spare tire meets the rest of the definitions in the tire/wheel section, it should be a legal tire. In addition, you may use any bolt or nut to attach that spare tire. Extra mounting brackets, however, would be a no-no.

One might be able to prohibit concrete tires on the "prohibited function" rule like the two-ton cage mount, but the way around that is to use ANY wheel that meets 9.1.3.D.7.a.1 - size limitations, no knock-offs and it must be made of metal - say a heavy wheel with 100 lbs of lead as wheel weights.

Umm, I would think that 9.1.3.D.7.a should apply. I don't agree with the lead weight/concrete etc. tortured interpretation. But I think it would be reasonable to replace it with a normal wheel/tire - or the one you are racing with! Perhaps then I can change a flat without a pit crew!

[shwah]

Sorry but that's just silly.

The rule does not say you can change what is in the tire. So it has to be full of air Unless it was empty from the factory, ala the collapsable spares that some cars had in 70s.

Obviously it is not possible, or required to identify the air molecules in your spare and corrolate them to 'stock air'.

[dickita15]

I was about to say Andy had it all wrong about replace or addition of fasteners and then Gary stopped me in my tracks. Gary is right and I missed it, the allowance for fasteners are only in those three areas.
I guess that makes my car illegal. When one of the body nut welded to sheet metal screws up I replace it with a nut and bolt.
By the way the air in the spare can be replaced with air from other than the manufacturer if it is the exact equivalent of the factory air.

[raffaelli]

Sorry but that's just silly.

The rule does not say you can change what is in the tire. So it has to be full of air Unless it was empty from the factory, ala the collapsable spares that some cars had in 70s.

Obviously it is not possible, or required to identify the air molecules in your spare and corrolate them to 'stock air'.

LOL....where do I get OE air?

[toddgreene]

Wow!!! This has come alive...

Back to my original post, I have written the CRB for the allowance of ballast in place of the spare
(optional) tire for safety's sake.

Thanks,

Todd