Spare Tire

[raffaelli]

Sorry but that's just silly.

The rule does not say you can change what is in the tire. So it has to be full of air Unless it was empty from the factory, ala the collapsable spares that some cars had in 70s.

Obviously it is not possible, or required to identify the air molecules in your spare and corrolate them to 'stock air'.

LOL....where do I get OE air?

[Knestis]

Curious, why remove it instead of stating that it must be secured properly?

It's become a de facto ballast item, retained for no other reason. (Remember that the original stated intent of IT was "dual-purpose cars" that could be driven to the track, so a spare made sense - but we're long past that.) There's no provision currently to increase the strength of the mount. This creates potentially dangerous situations, as drivers have a motivation to leave it in for performance's sake, compromising safety. The addition of rules to accomplish what the subtraction of rules will also accomplish is going the wrong direction so we can remove the threat of injury, defuse any chance at ambiguity that will come back to bite us, and impact everyone exactly the same amount (conceptually) by just making them go away.

K

[toddgreene]

Wow!!! This has come alive...

Back to my original post, I have written the CRB for the allowance of ballast in place of the spare
(optional) tire for safety's sake.

Thanks,

Todd

[Andy Bettencourt]

Wow!!! This has come alive...

Back to my original post, I have written the CRB for the allowance of ballast in place of the spare
(optional) tire for safety's sake.

Thanks,

Todd

There is already a limitation on where ballast can be placed.

[jjjanos]

Ty, I fall back on this: Where does it say you can SUBSTITUTE the air for anything else? Guys, saying you can fill the spare tire with anything but air is rediculous. It violates a few different rules.

Which rules? Please indicate where the rules mention with what I may fill my tires? Yes, they don't explicitely say you may fill them with anything but air, but then again, the rules don't explicitely say you can fill them with anything other than the PSI with which they came from the factory. So you can use any tire you want, as long as it is filled to 32PSI?

As for swapping out the spare, oopsie... Need to change my opinion...

9.1.3.D.7.a Any wheel/tire may be used within the following limitations:

9.1.3.D.7.a.5 Any wheel stud, bolt, and or nut is permitted.

Where does this specify the 4 tires on the ground. So, if the spare tire meets the rest of the definitions in the tire/wheel section, it should be a legal tire. In addition, you may use any bolt or nut to attach that spare tire. Extra mounting brackets, however, would be a no-no.

One might be able to prohibit concrete tires on the "prohibited function" rule like the two-ton cage mount, but the way around that is to use ANY wheel that meets 9.1.3.D.7.a.1 - size limitations, no knock-offs and it must be made of metal - say a heavy wheel with 100 lbs of lead as wheel weights.

[Andy Bettencourt]

And with that post, I am out of the discussion.

[spnkzss]

It's become a de facto ballast item, retained for no other reason. (Remember that the original stated intent of IT was "dual-purpose cars" that could be driven to the track, so a spare made sense - but we're long past that.) There's no provision currently to increase the strength of the mount. This creates potentially dangerous situations, as drivers have a motivation to leave it in for performance's sake, compromising safety. The addition of rules to accomplish what the subtraction of rules will also accomplish is going the wrong direction so we can remove the threat of injury, defuse any chance at ambiguity that will come back to bite us, and impact everyone exactly the same amount (conceptually) by just making them go away.

K

Spoken like a true ITAC member

[Greg Amy]

Please indicate where the rules mention with what I may fill my tires?

Two points:

1) The direct answer to your question above is IIDSYCTYC, plain and simple. You are correct, the rules do not allow the use of anything but regular ole atmospheric air in the tires, 'cause that's what the manufacturer delivered it with. Arguing anything different is silly.

However, while we do not have the equipment to determine if your tire is filled with either air or some other gas (or mixture thereof), we do have the capability to determine if it's filled with any type of non-gaseous substance. If you want to cheat by using nitrogen or some other gas, you'll get a pass. But it's still cheating (and yes, I do it).

2) In reality, regardless of the rules, it's enforced in Tech that you cannot fill your spare tire with a non-gaseous substance. After the '06 ARRC win I was forced to unbolt the spare tire (held in place by two safety-wired 1/2" bolts) so the tech inspector could heft in in his hands and verify it was not filled with, for instance, water or concrete (it was actually flat...) Same thing has happened twice to me during pre-season annual tech.

[jjjanos]

Two points:

1) The direct answer to your question above is IIDSYCTYC, plain and simple. You are correct, the rules do not allow the use of anything but regular ole atmospheric air in the tires, 'cause that's what the manufacturer delivered it with. Arguing anything different is silly.

However, while we do not have the equipment to determine if your tire is filled with either air or some other gas (or mixture thereof), we do have the capability to determine if it's filled with any type of non-gaseous substance. If you want to cheat by using nitrogen or some other gas, you'll get a pass. But it's still cheating (and yes, I do it).

2) In reality, regardless of the rules, it's enforced in Tech that you cannot fill your spare tire with a non-gaseous substance. After the '06 ARRC win I was forced to unbolt the spare tire (held in place by two safety-wired 1/2" bolts) so the tech inspector could heft in in his hands and verify it was not filled with, for instance, water or concrete (it was actually flat...) Same thing has happened twice to me during pre-season annual tech.

1. IIDSYCTYC also means that the factory-spec PSI is the only thing that is legal.
2. IIDSYCTYC also means that you were illegal when that spare was flat since that is an unauthorized modification. The tire came with air in it, correct?

IIDSYCTYC cuts both ways. If it is illegal to modify the substance filling the tires, it also is illegal to alter the factory specification for filling the tires.

Stupid? Assinine? Yes, but if IIDSYCTYC is going to be enforced in a manner that criminalizes common sense modifications - see altering the spare tire mount to secure it in a safer manner - it has to criminalize all of them otherwise it isn't IIDSYCTYC, it's IIDSYCTYCUWFLIBWANGTTYW.

[mom'sZ]

boy... you can tell it's winter time

[Jake]

As for swapping out the spare, oopsie... Need to change my opinion...

9.1.3.D.7.a Any wheel/tire may be used within the following limitations:

9.1.3.D.7.a.5 Any wheel stud, bolt, and or nut is permitted.

Where does this specify the 4 tires on the ground. So, if the spare tire meets the rest of the definitions in the tire/wheel section, it should be a legal tire. In addition, you may use any bolt or nut to attach that spare tire. Extra mounting brackets, however, would be a no-no.

One might be able to prohibit concrete tires on the "prohibited function" rule like the two-ton cage mount, but the way around that is to use ANY wheel that meets 9.1.3.D.7.a.1 - size limitations, no knock-offs and it must be made of metal - say a heavy wheel with 100 lbs of lead as wheel weights.

Umm, I would think that 9.1.3.D.7.a should apply. I don't agree with the lead weight/concrete etc. tortured interpretation. But I think it would be reasonable to replace it with a normal wheel/tire - or the one you are racing with! Perhaps then I can change a flat without a pit crew!

[JamesB]

man, remind me never to read this thread after a long meeting. Persoanlly I have a spare, safey issues I dont get, if I can bolt 50# using 2 large bolts within headshot of me then I have no problem with my OEM, air filled spare in the back of the car where it would take more then a bolt breaking to get to me using the oem mounting system and some locktite to keep her in place.

[vr6guy]

:eek: I have a hatchback, where if the OEM mounting system for the spare were to fail, it would be bouncing all over the car! Does'nt sound safe to me...... If I were to run a spare, it would be reinforced in another way for the SAFETY, for myself and others. Keyword, SAFETY!

[JamesB]

And what about the 50# of lead or other ballast mounted in your passanger footwell or before the B pillar held in by 2 bolts in clear shot of your body and head? I looked at the VW mounting system for the spare, egads it has as much reinforcement as the OEM seat belt locations!!! so really I dont see it as an issue. Having owned many tanks, I mean golfs and being hit hard in the street (rear ended) the one thing I know is that spare tire does not like to come out....ever.

[gran racing]

If someone feels their particular spare tire poses a safety thread, here's an idea - don't put it in. Like James said, I'd be more nervous of the lead or fire extinguisher than a spare tire for the cars I've seen them mounted.

[JamesB]

Exactly. If you dont like it dont use it. but if I didnt do that I would have around 70-75# of ballast within head shot. I dindt even think about the handheld fire extinguisher that would likely pop loose in the event of a roll. But in the end, that spare tire has to make it through the maze of main hoop, uprights, diagnals braces and the harness bar to get to me. The ballast just has to move.

[jjjanos]

If someone feels their particular spare tire poses a safety thread, here's an idea - don't put it in. Like James said, I'd be more nervous of the lead or fire extinguisher than a spare tire for the cars I've seen them mounted.

Then don't put the extinguisher in.

[Knestis]

I'd be laughing and rolling my smiley eyes too, if I hadn't seen a completely serious inquiry elsewhere, that resulted in suggestions about where to get used recycled birdshot for spare tire filling.

If you race in WDC region, ask Ginsberg if you can bench-press his spare at some point this season.

K

[jjjanos]

I'd be laughing and rolling my smiley eyes too, if I hadn't seen a completely serious inquiry elsewhere, that resulted in suggestions about where to get used recycled birdshot for spare tire filling.

If you race in WDC region, ask Ginsberg if you can bench-press his spare at some point this season.

K

Better yet, ask Ginsberg if he can bench-press his spare....

Hi Gregg

[JamesB]

All good and well Kirk, but again, I was not talking about another competitor and what they do with their spare. I have a 100% oem legal spare that holds nothing but air. Add in some ballast to balence the car and allow me to make weight without sloshing around a full tank of fuel and im good to go. If you think the spare is a safety issue, by all means don't use one. But if I can help the balence of my car as well as make weight without needing to come of off the track with 9 gallons in the tank (some tracks you burn more.) The so be it.