Cage photos in Tech Center is it legal?

[arpenn]

My brother, my dad and I are getting ready to redo some of the roll cage in our 1990 Honda Civic Si that we just bought. I have been looking at the pictures in the Tech Center of the CRX build which is very similar to our car. My question:Is everything in those pictures ITA legal as far a cage mounting/attachment points, the welded in front strut tower brace, rear pan hard bar, etc? These are great pictures and give me a lot of ideas for our car, I just want to know if they are legal before we copy.

[ddewhurst]

Aaron, many of us could answer your questions. The best thing you can do for yourself is get out your 2008 GCR, open the GCR to page GCR-93 Roll Cgaes For GT and Production based cars & start reading everything you need to know that's legal. & compare what's written to what you see in the pictures.

For the strut brace & the Panhard bar open the GCR to the ITCS on page GCR-329 and read & understand the rules. Then after you have given yourself the opportunity to learn star asking questions on this forum. For example I could tell you the answer to your Panhard question but that would be somthing someone said, not something in a rule you read & understood. For example for the strut tower brace go to page ITCS GCR-336item .d.5. The rule specifies what you may do but it don't tell you how to do it. Bolt it, glue it, weld it or do it however you like.

Have Fun
David

[jhooten]

Aaron, many of us could answer your questions. The best thing you can do for yourself is get out your 2008 GCR, open the GCR to page GCR-93 Roll Cgaes For GT and Production based cars & start reading everything you need to know that's legal. & compare what's written to what you see in the pictures.


David
[/b]

Since when do IT cars have to meet the GT/Prod cage rules?

[dickita15]

Since when do IT cars have to meet the GT/Prod cage rules?
[/b]

in the 2008 GCR rewrite they are covered in the same section of the book.

David is right.

[jhooten]

in the 2008 GCR rewrite they are covered in the same section of the book.

David is right.

Ok, I see it is for new cars. Cars with a log book prior to 1/1/08 can continue to use the current cage.

[Grumpy]

On the two bars foward of A pillar deal.

Some can read that one bar may go forward from the A pillar.

OR

Some can say I can attach extra tubes wherever I choose.

I can argue both cases. Rules might need to say what they mean.

[arpenn]

David,
That was clear as mud. I have read the GCR on the cage section, but from what I have been reading on this site about rules interpetation there are many times big disagreements. Can someone look at these pictures and tell me if anything is illegal?

[JoshS]

David,
That was clear as mud. I have read the GCR on the cage section, but from what I have been reading on this site about rules interpetation there are many times big disagreements. Can someone look at these pictures and tell me if anything is illegal?
[/b]

What is the tech center? Do you have a link to these photos?

[arpenn]

http://www.improvedtouring.com/Tech/

Click on Tech Photos

[Limey]

I believe the rules state 8 mounting points for the cage. Look at the bulkhead photo - is the floor mount considered as one? Or two? As it appears that there are two additional mounting points at the top of the bulkhead, that would make ten.......

[Grumpy]

Look at the bulkhead photo - is the floor mount considered as one? Or two? As it appears that there are two additional mounting points at the top of the bulkhead, that would make ten.......
[/b]

Each mounting plate should be no more than 144" sq. If more it is two mounting points.
See the GCR rules for more info and details.

[chuck baader]

Seat mount is not legal...adds another attachment point to the chassis. Strut brace in rear....therefore, cannot have one in front...one only. Chuck

[shwah]

Seat mount is not legal...adds another attachment point to the chassis. Strut brace in rear....therefore, cannot have one in front...one only. Chuck
[/b]

That car does not have a rear strut brace. It has one cage attachment point at each rear shock tower.

[arpenn]

So in the attached photo, is this considered one attachement point or four?

[Grumpy]

So in the attached photo, is this considered one attachement point or four?
[/b]

If all the pipes touch one or another it is definitely one per NASA CCR.

If all the pipes touch a single plate not more that 144" sq, it is definitely one per SCCA GCR.

[arpenn]

So if these are welded together then to the car does this count as one plate?

[Speed Raycer]

Seat frame looks fine to me. Doesn't seem to be mounted anywhere but to the cage (it's removed in the later pics for the paint process)

Even if it is bolted to the chassis, how is that any different than mounting a non FIA seat w/the required seat brace?

[Grumpy]

It would count as one point but be careful that all the tubes that are supossed to touch the plate are.

[shwah]

You are completely right. I was not thinking in terms of the current (new) cage rule set. Sorry for the confusion. One tube is what it says, so one tube is what it shall be until those words are changed.

[Speed Raycer]

Here are the rules that I see applying to this situation:

Cars competing in Improved Touring, Showroom Stock, Spec Miata, and Touring may extend one tube, from each front down tube, forward to the firewall but not penetrating the firewall.....

Any number of additional tube elements is permitted within the boundaries of the minimum cage structure.

IMO, the cage tubes pictured meet the first rule because one tube extends "from each front down tube, forward to the firewall but not penetrating the firewall."

The second tube does not touch the firewall pad and is permitted under the second rule. There is no rule that says they both have to touch the pad.

This really should be on DD's list of dumb cage rules. If they're really looking to protect the drivers foot/leg area, then let us do it. Don't handicap us with the wording just because people are finding some chassis benifits from it. If you want to get rid of the chassis benifits but keep the protection, allow a 7th point on the drivers side but no 8th point.