Just purchased ITA/H4 Civic Si

[arpenn]

First let me introduce myself, my name is Aaron. My brother, my dad, and I just purchased a 1990 ITA/H4 Honda Civic Si race car. The car is well sorted but in need of some cosmetic work. We are going to be repainting the entire car inside and out. We are also going to be redoing the front cage supports so they will run down throught the dash, add nascar style door bars, and a brace that will run inside the dash to connect both front supports. We also have to find a place to hook up the mechanical water temp gauge on the engine, right now it is laying in the floorboard ( anyone done this already?) We have to remove the steering lock, previous owner never did. And we want to install a push button start. We purchased a energy suspension kit and will be installing it soon as well. I love working on the car and I can't wait to drive it on the track . We plan to run some HSDE at Hallett in Oklahoma and then run some of the COMMA Series races there at Hallett as well. Maybe by the end of the year we will be ready to get our SCCA license and run some SCCA races. I am sure we will have a lot of questions for you guys. We are also in need of a service manual for this car. We have the second book of the set, but the previous owner lost the first book

Here is a run down of the car:

Engine D16A6:
.020 Over
Balanced and Blueprinted
OPM ITA prepped head
SMSP 4-1 Header
Dynomax race muffler / No Cat
Unorthodox racing crankshaft pulley
MSD Ignition wires
AEM Cold Air intake

Transmission:
ATS 4.73 Final Drive
OPM Limited Slip Differential

Suspension:
Koni SPSS3 Race Shocks (shortened and re-valved)
Ground Control perches/sleeves
ERS Springs Front and Rear
Suspension Techniques adj. rear sway bar
Energy Suspension Hyper Flex bushings
Front and Rear Strut Bars
Street N Track brake cooling ducts attached to spindle
Goodridge steel braided brake lines
Carbotech Panther XP9 brake pads
Panasport 14x7 Ultralites Wheels w/Hoosier s04
Team Dynamics 14x7 Wheels w/Toyo RA1

Body:
6 Point roll cage
Cobra Monaco race seat
IO Port seatback brace
Momo Mod 78 race steering wheel
LTB steering wheel quick release
OMP race pedals
G-Force 5 pt. Harness
IO Port fire extinguisher
Longacre cut off switch
G-Force window net with GM quick release
IO Port camera mount
AMB Transponder
4 panel wink mirror
Longacre Hot Lap timer
Autometer Gauges water temp, oil temp, oil pressure
Autometer Shift Light

I am sure that I forgot some things but this is what comes to mind at the moment.

Aaron

[gran racing]

What, no pictures?

Congrats on the purchase - it sounds like a fantastic car!

[Limey]

Aaron,

I am reviving my old ITA civic Si from several years ago (have spent last 4 years in a spec Miata), so would be happy to share my experiences/contacts. The Civic is a little more stable than the CRX, which can be a handful. One issue I recall that did plague me was fuel starvation in turn with approx. 1/4 tank of gas. Also, they tend to eat front wheel bearings and axles, and brake hardware needs to be well maintained (i.e. new!) to get a good pedal feel. You do however have the option to replace the rear drums with discs (update/backdate rule). Regarding wheels, I'll be using Enkei RPF1's (9.5 lb), the lightest wheel I have found.

Anyway, good luck with the school and maybe I'll see you at a race in 2008!

Cheers, Mark

[RacerBowie]

Aaron, did you buy Ben's car?

The only thing Mark got wrong is that Civics have to stick with the rear drums. No Civic of that generation came with rear discs, only the CRXs.

I must mention I am glad to see Mark back in ITA in the Southeast!

[Limey]

Bowie,

I vowed to prep the old girl to the limit of the rules to see how she'd do. I probably should have converted over the spec miata, however, the Honda did look all forlorn sitting in the garage under a pile of dust. Have a couple more weeks of wrenching then off to the paint shop and dyno.

I'll probably have to drive hard to keep up with the CRX's and miatas, but should be fun trying!

No rear discs for the Civic???!! Damn.....oh well, at least the drums are lighter (I think, but you may prove me wrong again!)

Cheers, Mark

[R2 Racing]

Aaron, did you buy Ben's car?[/b]

That's what I was thinking.


Mark - most of the CRX guys I've talked to who made the drum to disk conversion couldn't tell me that they ever noticed much of a difference. The only plus they could really say they got was in maintaining them. So I don't think you're missing much.

[RacerBowie]

Bowie,

I vowed to prep the old girl to the limit of the rules to see how she'd do. I probably should have converted over the spec miata, however, the Honda did look all forlorn sitting in the garage under a pile of dust. Have a couple more weeks of wrenching then off to the paint shop and dyno.

I'll probably have to drive hard to keep up with the CRX's and miatas, but should be fun trying!

No rear discs for the Civic???!! Damn.....oh well, at least the drums are lighter (I think, but you may prove me wrong again!)

Cheers, Mark
[/b]

Everything I have read and heard says the drums are indeed lighter, so you've got that going for you! I think the Civic is still a good car, and only off a tenth or two from a CRX, while being easier to get the last tenths out of.

Have you heard about the car we're building for Christian Shipp this spring? '90 Civic EX sedan FTW!

[arpenn]

Aaron, did you buy Ben's car?[/b]

[lateapex911]

I am NO FWD guy, but i've heard lots of guys like the drums better because you can adjust the drag..or the lack thereof, with the handbrake. In other words, each hp is getting used to go forward, not to overcome the parsitic drag of the rear discs.

[ewaugh]

You can get shoes for the rear drums too. Carbotech makes them.

[Tom Blaney]

I am NO FWD guy, but i've heard lots of guys like the drums better because you can adjust the drag..or the lack thereof, with the handbrake. In other words, each hp is getting used to go forward, not to overcome the parsitic drag of the rear discs.
[/b]

" not to overcome the parsitic drag of the rear discs."

WHAT!!!!

Where did you get that theory, "Dummies guide to F1"


Unfortunatly the Civic cannot run disk, but I believe that most fast CRX guys would perfer the control of disc brakes and the ability to modulate the brake pedal without binding and lockups.

[lateapex911]

Reread the post Tom, I've been told. Some of the guys who have told me that have run at the front of the ARRC in their class, but hey, you're right...they must be reading the dummies guide to F1.

[Tom Blaney]

Reread the post Tom, I've been told. Some of the guys who have told me that have run at the front of the ARRC in their class, but hey, you're right...they must be reading the dummies guide to F1.
[/b]

The ARRC is not the be all and end all of the best IT drivers in the country. I have been there and although it is a great event, it does not dictate what is true and correct in IT.

Take a cross section of the front runners (in a variety of cars and classes) look at the drivers history, and the preperation of the cars. Then decide what makes a fast car, not just because they brought it to ARRC.

As far as the parasitic drag..... come on, you have newbee racers reading this post ...they will actually start to believe that it is a critical issue and spend many dollars chasing a rainbow.

Keep it honest and keep it real.
IMHOC

[lateapex911]

The ARRC is not the be all and end all of the best IT drivers in the country. I have been there and although it is a great event, it does not dictate what is true and correct in IT.

Take a cross section of the front runners (in a variety of cars and classes) look at the drivers history, and the preperation of the cars. Then decide what makes a fast car, not just because they brought it to ARRC.

As far as the parasitic drag..... come on, you have newbee racers reading this post ...they will actually start to believe that it is a critical issue and spend many dollars chasing a rainbow.

Keep it honest and keep it real.
IMHOC [/b]

Tom, I'm not looking to get into crap with you, but, it wasn't I that brought up the drum issue in the first place. Poster 3 did that. I merely added that some people feel drums are a better choice for certain cars...to show that, in some eyes, being "stuck" (as Bowie said in post 4) with drums isn't being stuck at all.

As for newbies, that's why we have boards like this, to discuss issues. If I were a newbie, (and I was) I would (and I did), ask a follow up question or three if I had the option and was considering such a move, like "How much is a change from discs to drums (or vice vesa, just an example) worth?" Easier to type than wrench, right?

[Zephyr]

You can get shoes for the rear drums too. Carbotech makes them.
[/b]

This is not always a good combination though, on my Civic, granted it was a 3rd gen, I would get all sorts of fatty lock up when I ran anything other then stock shoes. Nothing more unnerving then looking at the embankment as you're sliding sideways into T5 at Summit Point.

[cafcwest]

The only thing Mark got wrong is that Civics have to stick with the rear drums. No Civic of that generation came with rear discs, only the CRXs.
[/b]

I don't know about the IT regs, but 89-91 Civic Si's came with rear disc brakes, just like the CRX's.

-Jayson


Edit: I stand corrected. For the life of me, I picture them with rear discs, but I must just be accustomed to looking at CRX's, or cars that have been swapped.

I apologize for the mis-information.

[arpenn]

If I am not mistaken I believe our car has drums, but I will double check tonight. I will also try to post some pictures this weekend if I get a chance. How difficult is it to remove the dash in a civic? We are going to be rebuilding part of the roll cage and adding a bar inside the dash that will connect both front down tubes on the cage, so the dash will have to come out. On the roll cage there are some stickers, I assume inspection stickers, do these have to stay on the cage? We will also be adding some additional bracing on the cage. One area that needs a reinforcing bar is from the roof halo to the main roll bar and it will attach where the stickers are located. We will also be repainting the interior and cage so we need to remove them for that as well. Can someone help us out here?

[RacerBowie]

I don't know about the IT regs, but 89-91 Civic Si's came with rear disc brakes, just like the CRX's.

-Jayson
[/b]

I am 99.9999% sure you are incorrect about this. I was a Honda dork before I became a Mazda dork, and the only EF ('88-'91) that came with rear discs was the '90-'91 CRX Si. I know for a fact that '88-'89 Civic Si's had drums, as I have had an '89. I have NEVER seen any EF Honda with discs that wasn't a '90-'91 CRX Si.

I'm off to research to make sure.

If I am not mistaken I believe my car has drums, but I will double check tonight. I will also try to post some pictures this weekend if I get a chance. How difficult is it to remove the dash in a civic? We are going to be rebuilding part of the roll cage and adding a bar inside the dash that will connect both front down tubes on the cage, so the dash will have to come out. On the roll cage there are some stickers, I assume inspection stickers, do these have to stay on the cage? I will also be adding some additional bracing on the cage. One area that needs a reinforcing bar is from the roof halo to the main roll bar and it will attach where the stickers are located. We will also be repainting the interior and cage so I need to remove them for that as well. Can someone help me out here?
[/b]

The stickers are just event techs, they can come off. The dash on a Civic is a straightforward removal, just like any other car, unless the cage is in the way, then it gets a little more awkward. While the dash is out, if I were you I would seriously consider adding the two allowed braces between the A-Pillar down bar and the firewall as your 7th and 8th points. Extra foot protection is a good thing, and any competent cage guy can knock that job out in no time, so it shouldn't cost much.

[spnkzss]

I am 99.9999% sure you are incorrect about this. I was a Honda dork before I became a Mazda dork, and the only EF ('88-'91) that came with rear discs was the '90-'91 CRX Si. I know for a fact that '88-'89 Civic Si's had drums, as I have had an '89. I have NEVER seen any EF Honda with discs that wasn't a '90-'91 CRX Si.


[/b]

I'm 99.99999% sure too. They never came with Discs. If they did, I would have not swapped them out of the new car I'm building

[RacerBowie]

Ok, I must really like you guys. I just subjected myself to freaking Honda-tech to track this crap down. I really think it makes you dumber to read anything on that site.

The ONLY '88-'91 EF chassic Hondas that came with rear discs was the '90-'91 CRX Si.

I'm going to go gouge my eyes out now with a rusty spoon.