Area 12 report from Philip Creighton

[lateapex911]

If they moved the Runoffs to Indy (No way in hell will THAT ever happen, sadly), I would get my ass in a National class faster than you can say "Indianapolis, world capitol of motor racing".

Man, just riding down that straight in a Ford E150 Econoline van gave me goosebumps.

And I bet I am not alone.

You'd see the largest Runoffs ever, and nobody would complain about anything. (well, except a couple old crumudgeons...)

[Chris Wire]

Very interesting. I hadn't seen the new layout but it still doesn't solve the paddock issue or the price gouging question.
[/b]

You'll never "solve" a price-gouging problem, since we don't live in Communist China. It's called capitalism. You solve it by where you spend your money. It's why I might drive farther to the track than I would like, and it's why my kids don't get $1200 from me for Hannah Montana concert tickets. :026:

And Indy has no monopoly on raising prices during high demand seasons. Every golf course in Florida does it during the winter, and have you seen the prices for hotel rooms during Speed Weeks?

[Matt Rowe]

Man, just riding down that straight in a Ford E150 Econoline van gave me goosebumps.

And I bet I am not alone.[/b]

You probably aren't alone, but I don't see it. Sure the "oval" has history and is something to experience but after 1.5 touring laps I was past the nostalgia. The old road course had a very brief history with F1 but we wouldn't even get that, we would have the new course and rarely do I see people start to get all misty talking about racing on the same track as, as, as??? Say who is a famous Moto GP rider? Seriously racing at the same location is not the same as racing on a historic track and unless you want to run an oval in a formula car Indy does nothing for me. I race SCCA because I like turning both ways and trying to sell Indy to us based on the idea of it's history will not ring true to the people who will complain. Which brings me to

You'd see the largest Runoffs ever, and nobody would complain about anything. (well, except a couple old crumudgeons...)
[/b]

Oh come on Jake, you know better than that. Only a couple of old curmudgeons. First you'll have some of the West coast complaing it's still not close. Than people will complain about the paddock space sizes, reservation process, distance to showers, etc. Than the complaints about fess, practice time, track time, their response crews. In the end a vocal group won't be happy and they won't be satisfied by the idea that "it uses part of the brickyard."

You'll never "solve" a price-gouging problem, since we don't live in Communist China. It's called capitalism. You solve it by where you spend your money. [/b]

I agree but there are areas that are worse than others and Indy is pretty high on the list. Therefore you don't spend money there. It's the decision we made after faithfully attending the first 4 years of F1 at Indy. When the 2 nights stay at a fleabag motel an hour from the track cost more than the tickets, gas and parking it was time to vote with my wallet.

But getting back to Jake's statement that it will never happen I have to agree. I positively can not see Indy buying into anything close to the current business model for the runoffs and I think it will be impossible to change the model to acocunt for the costs of Indy without doubling (as if only) the fees paid by the racers.

It's a nice fantasy (for some) but it is just wishful thinking. The more productive thing to focus on is not deciding where we wish it was but to make sure the next RFP is written so that tracks want to host the event rather than having a choice between 2 or 3 tracks throughout the country.

[gran racing]

I'd complain that we're using a roval for the "US Road Racing Championships," and even though the banking is kinda interesting the track has no hills.

[RSTPerformance]

If they moved the Runoffs to Indy (No way in hell will THAT ever happen, sadly), I would get my ass in a National class faster than you can say "Indianapolis, world capitol of motor racing".

Man, just riding down that straight in a Ford E150 Econoline van gave me goosebumps.

And I bet I am not alone.

You'd see the largest Runoffs ever, and nobody would complain about anything. (well, except a couple old crumudgeons...)
[/b]

Add three more entries to the list

First Class facility and no other opportunity to race other than running the season and qualifying for the event, add three more entries to the list !!!

I have never been, but a track that big, I don't see how parking would be an issue... Ok maybe we need to take out a few greens http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&time...5&t=h&z=15&om=1

[Matt Rowe]

Raymond, I've been there and parking would be an issue, especially when they already have a good portion of the paved areas filled with track vehicles and such. And the facilities are not what I would call first class, at least not beyond the F1 garage stalls and some of the indy/nascar space.

I think the turnout would be great the first year, and then the whining and moaning would start. And Tony isn't going to bend over backward for a bunch of amateur racers with no widely marketable product. So we end back where we are, at a course that people will say isn't really championship caliber (I hadn't even mentioned the flat as a table elevation) in the a place that has potentially miserable weather (they almost needed snow tires for the F1 guys one year). No thanks, I'm sick and tired of listening to the complaints about HPT and don't want to go through another 3 years with the next track. If/when we go somewhere else it shouldn't be to trade one venue for another and still end up bitching about the course and the venue for the same reasons plus some new ones.

[Cobrar05]

And so, we are back to Road Atlanta.

[Matt Rowe]

And so, we are back to Road Atlanta.
[/b]

Road Atlanta, Road America, they are both more centrally located to the driving population than HPT. And with the added benefit that you dont have to convince your coworkers or non racing friends that the Indy they see on TV is not the same track you raced but really it's still cool.

[Cobrar05]

Road America would be great if the Runoffs were in July. Mid to late October might be more like a snowmobile race, eh?

[Anubis]

And so, we are back to Road Atlanta.
[/b]

Have you ever been there for the Mitty? If not I'd highly suggest you go and see just how packed things are with 400 or so cars and a upwards of a few thousand fans. It ain't pretty, there is no way in hell Road Atlanta is ready for the car levels would bring in much less amount of workers it will take to make it happen. Room for tech is not there, there are 2 showers on both sides which means workers showering throughout the night, getting cars to grid would be an absolute nightmare plus time of year is not great. Many of us take from 16-32 hours of work for Petit, don't know how many could swing that amount a couple of weeks prior. Personally as much as I would love to have the Runoffs at Road Atlanta unless some pretty big things are done its just not feasible at this time. Give them a year to figure it out and they are willing to spend $ we'll see. I think VIR would be the best choice at this time and yes the weather can get bad sometimes, sometimes it can be good, sometimes it can be great and sometimes you'll 3 different conditions in the same day. It is what it is, so be it. Hell, Mid-O had SNOW during the Runoffs.

[Ron Earp]

VIR is a great place for the runoffs. In the years I've been up there in October and November the weather has been quite good. Yes, the Friday that Cobrar05 was up at VIR for the Goblins Go it was wet, but the actual race weekend was beautiful. More often than not I'm in short sleeves at VIR in the late Fall. All the 13 Hour Enduros in November have been clear, although 06 was cold, 04,05, and 07 were extremely nice. Weather at VIR in October and November is typically good and Road Atlanta isn't going to improve on the weather situation.

Mid-Ohio is/was a good place for the runoffs too but VIR should do slightly better than Ohio on the weather in the October/November time frame.

Bottom line is damn near anywhere is better for the runoffs than Topeka KS.

[Cobrar05]

VIR is arguably the finest road course in the country. It is the closest track to where I live. I would support VIR.

[Chris Wire]

Since I don't have a dog in this hunt I can say this and let you guys decide how crazy I sound.

After watching most of the telecasts of this year's Runoffs, I have to say that the racing at HPT is a better show and more entertaining to watch than what I saw coming from MO. While MO may be a great facility, it ends up being a fairly boring race to watch with essentially one good passing zone and two marginal ones. The rest is just follow the leader. I'd say that the layout at HPT easily doubles that number and it shows on TV. Now whatever other beefs there are about racing there; safety-related, the surrounding area, etc., it seems those issues could be worked out to some degree. But don't ruin the racing in favor of better facilities or more hotel rooms. Hell, you go to the Runoffs to race, don't you?

It seems that the natural inclination here seems to be moving it east. I think the club extends to both coasts right? I can't in my right mind see more people attending from the west coast if it were held at RA, VIR, Barber, Daytona, etc. Those places all add an additional thousand miles or more to anyone towing from west of the Rockies. Don't see it happening.

[JoshS]

But don't ruin the racing in favor of better facilities or more hotel rooms. Hell, you go to the Runoffs to race, don't you?
[/b]

Topeka has MUCH better hotels, and many more rooms, than the area around Mid-Ohio. Of all of the issues with Heartland Park, two of them should NOT be hotels or restaurants.

It seems that the natural inclination here seems to be moving it east. I think the club extends to both coasts right? I can't in my right mind see more people attending from the west coast if it were held at RA, VIR, Barber, Daytona, etc. Those places all add an additional thousand miles or more to anyone towing from west of the Rockies. Don't see it happening.
[/b]

Thanks for the thought! All of you who live around the corner from some coastal track, thinking about how great it would be -- would YOU go if we chose Laguna Seca?

But this conversation happens over and over again, and the last time it happened on this forum, Stan Clayton (pretty sure it was Stan) posted a map that showed the track locations on a US Census population density map, and it was pretty clear that the right thing was something east of Topeka (but not all the way to a coast). Actually, it seemed like there couldn't be a better location to serve more people with shorter tows than Mid-Ohio.

[JeffYoung]

Is there some structural reason that the Runoffs can't rotate around the country?

[gran racing]

I'd love to see it rotate among at least a couple of tracks.

[Cobrar05]

Is there some structural reason that the Runoffs can't rotate around the country?
[/b]

Yea, there is a reason. Race dates are very tight. A track of runoffs quality has no available dates particularly in prime weather. They remain with the same racing groups for years and years. This year's calender at Road Atlanta looks just like last year's and next.

So, its not practical to have a good date at a good track for just a one year thing.

I suggested rotating the ARRC and the Runoffs between two tracks so that the SCCA could get and control two good dates and just rotate the event that way. But that is the only way.

[lateapex911]

The Runoffs are a difficlut event for a track.

1- Huge paddock needs. 600 cars, and larger than average (national or regional) transporters.
2- More workers, and the attendant motorhomes and camping needs
3- Television support. SPEED needs to be on board and hae a plae for the equipemnt trucks and cameras, etc.
4- Local hotels and support
5- Time. it's a long freakin event, so the track will need a week of open time.

Every time the "Bids" go out from SCCA, only 2 or 3 tracks even respond.

And those that do insist on multi year contracts to make it worth the efort.

I'd agree that the racing at HPT is much better this year. And thats an important issue. We need raceable tracks, where passes can be made in sevaral spots. It makes for much better TV, and that makes for better marketing of the club. It's our only time on TV, we need to put on a great show.

While Indy might have issues, it is still such an icon that many things could be overlooked, and the story line on TV would be great. But Tony George will have zero interest. It would be too much hassle for too little profit for him. He cares about money.

[Matt Rowe]

But this conversation happens over and over again, and the last time it happened on this forum, Stan Clayton (pretty sure it was Stan) posted a map that showed the track locations on a US Census population density map, and it was pretty clear that the right thing was something east of Topeka (but not all the way to a coast). Actually, it seemed like there couldn't be a better location to serve more people with shorter tows than Mid-Ohio.[/b]

It was Stan and I remember the map. I did a more in depth study last month and basically plotted the location of EVERY licensed driver and calculated the distance from the official residence to several tracks. That's why I reference above certain tracks as being the shorest average distance, I'm not guessing, I know what's closest.

For reference here is the google map that came out of this.

[Ron Earp]

Here is the same map with a couple of other tracks added in. CMP and Summit can't support a runoff type event, but VIR certainly can. And, VIR is well located according to the population centers.



This thing should be able to rotate around. But I suppose it doesn't matter to any of us, we're all just a bunch of second class regional racers huh?