ITR legality question about hub.

[lateapex911]

David, with respect, this is a much more multi layered issue than might first be apparent.

1- The club is not super healthy when it comes to new racers and new blood.
2- The club doesn't have a surplus of people wanting to spend dozens of weekends getting their scrutineer chops and stamps of approval
3- The GCR is chock a block full of categories and models.

Reality: A billion Spec Miatas have rolled up for inspection, and I'd bet many did it at an event, with their run group going out in the next hour. Should it happen like that? nope...but it does. IIRC one of my cars got it's annual under similar conditions. And those tech lines are long. Scrutineers are stuck between a rock and a hard place: Know everything about everything, do an hours work in 10 minutes, make sure everybody in the tech line...the "Customers" , get on the track on time, make sure everybody is safe and make sure everybody is legal and meets the specs of their class. That's a daunting list, and one that is nearly impossible. Some people will not get their way, and I can tell you there have been people who missed their run groups because an inspecor was tied up discussing the legalities of a cage with someone further up the line.

Should such cages be turned away? Not sure on that. If the car has obvious illegalities, and its a school car, I'd suggest a "fix by next event" notation be added to the logbook. If it's an experienced racer then the "Fix by" is a bare minimum.

But, in any case, some will slip through the cracks. Thats where competitors come in. An illegal cage is an illegal cage, whether it has a logbook or not.

I imagine you feel that there are some cages that have been given logbooks (without notation) by tech people who knew the cages were illegal. I don't have any first, or second hand info on that, but if it happened, I'd be disappointed.

[ddewhurst]

***I imagine you feel that there are some cages that have been given logbooks (without notation) by tech people who knew the cages were illegal.***

Jake, I (EDIT, I stutter & sometimes forget to insert words. Sorry )never have & never will (I hope) blame tech people for KNOWINGLY issuing a cage number that had an illegal roll cage. I understand every thing else you stated within this post.

[JohnRW]

Jake, I have have & never will (I hope) blame tech people for KNOWINGLY issuing a cage number that had an illegal roll cage. [/b]

???

Yes, the inspectors should be sticking their heads under the dash and poking about in dark stinky places when initially inspecting a cage and issuing a logbook. They likely do this with every car. My point (which you seem to be avoiding) is that not every inspector will be fully fluent with each class & make of car.

As I've pointed out several times now, YOU would have given a cage incorporating the dash-bar a "PASS", even though it's been previously ruled illegal. You do seem to be outraged that an inspector might have looked at a different cage design and consider it legal. You're looking for "malfeasance" where "misunderstanding" is the likely issue. You OWN an SM and "misunderstood"...why can't someone who might be looking at 30+ classes of cars during a weekend ?

You didn't point the problem out to the Inspector. Why not ? Would you protest the car if you competed against it ? If not, why not ?

The GCR makes clear that competitors bear a significant responsiblity toward rules compliance. Until that changes, competitors have to step up to this responsibility.

Any compliance program that is outside the "competitor action" arena will have costs. In SM, that will now include a $10 surcharge on each race entry. How this money will be allocated and spent by Topeka is still unknown. It won't trickle down to Regions holding races. While many wonder why Stewards and Scrutineers don't regularly "tear-down" cars for compliance checks, it's really a simple issue - cost. Regions don't want to/can't bear the costs of tear-down bonds. They likely operate on thin margins as it is, and don't want a "contingent liability" hanging over their racing budget.

So...if that is the case (and it is, actually), then the costs of extra compliance programs will come from only one place - competitors. How much are you willing to pay to have a REAL compliance program in place at every race ?

[ddewhurst]

QUOTE(JohnRW @ Dec 28 2007, 05:25 PM)

Greg - you wanna see me in tights ? Oh....I guess you didn't say "super-hero", did you ?

QUOTE(Jake)

Ackkk.......althouuuuuuggghhh...............you might bear a slight resemblence to Clark kent due to the glasses...

JohnRW, altho I have never met you might these two posts including one by you give a slight description of yourself.

***not every inspector will be fully fluent with each class & make of car.***

Thanks John, do YOU think maybe that's why previously within this thread I threw out that it might be good to have car marquee owner support the Scrutineer when the original inspection came about.

***outraged, malfeasance***

John, these ^ would be words you used for whatever reason. Maybe you think the words add some razzel dazzel to your post.

***why can't someone who might be looking at 30+ classes of cars during a weekend ?***

John, get over yourself with this 30+ classes of cars per weekend. I'm talking about roll cages.........I'll bet you don't see 30 NEW cars per year to check the new roll cages on in YOUR divison & I'll bet you don't do a SERIOUS annual roll cage check on any cars that all ready have a number stamped in the roll cage. After the start of your season at a Regional race I'll bet you don't check roll cages period.

I have all ready stated on this site that my belief is that the Spec Miata $10.00 fee per Regional or National race is nothing more than filling the Topeka coffers for 100% benefit for the National Spec Miata racers. < even that is not outrage. Topeka has all ready stated that they will check at 15 races per year. Duh, do ya think Regionals are included.

[JohnRW]

At first time for a roll cage inspection or at anual inspection (which is to be a safety inspection) why are so many illegal roll cages given a number/book & sent on their way as A OK.

I made a similar comment in the Mazda forum with no comments from anyone. Folks, if it&#39;s illegal, IT&#39;S ILLEGAL.

It&#39;s time for tech inspectors to note some log books with a

I have a letter that has been sent at this time & I&#39;ll bet -ya I can write the response that I&#39;ll receive because no one in offical dume wants to offend anyone or has the balls to write notes in a bunch of log books. Roll cages are something that IMHJ SHALL be to rules........................... If something as out in the open as roll cages ain&#39;t legal how the hell is anyone going to do anything about the items that can&#39;t be seen.
[/b]

Hey...they&#39;re your capital letters. Is it "outrage", or do you think our vision is bad ?