Camaros and Firebirds in ITR

[Bob Roth]

Is this mixing apples and oranges. As an owner of a type r integra, I gotta believe that the on track performance will in now way similar to the mix of the vast majority of ITR high rpm 3 liter range engines.

If we need another V8 class besides American Sedan, then create it. I suspect the whole of ITR would be outraged if V8 iron is lumped into the class.

[spnkzss]

I think that is awesome and always thought it was a shame that there were no IT Pony cars.

[tom_sprecher]

since they won't be in my (IT7) run group other than I really like Jake's avitar.

[krysdean]

Whoa guys, I am not so sure this is a good idea, better you should run in ITO (SEDIV class for unlimited IT cars similar to SPO). I love the Pony cars, but, as a Steward, the disparity in weights and horsepower make me nervous, and the idea of an ITC/ITR pony car clash is not a pleasant one. Give it some thought, ITO could be a lot of fun.

Krys Dean

[lateapex911]

????
Huh?
I must be missing the point, because, that comment makes no sense to me, sorry.

Fact: The Pony cars are being considered at weights that are within the limits of ITR, and there are cars listed at similar weights already. So, calling "foul" on the weight thing is a non issue. Especially when I look around and see some of the run groups I've seen!

Fact: The Hp levels are (again,) through the magic of proper classification, within the scope of ITR, and match well against..you guessed it, cars listed already!

Specifically, the cars submitted for classification are not the Cobras and the Zo6 engined V8s that I think people assume they are. These cars are 195 Hp cars, limited by heads or cams or weird injection in the motor department, and by live axles and possibly sketchy brakes in the other areas.

The key to classing them properly is to make sure the strengths offset the weaknesses. They WON'T be putting down AS level power...FAR from it...AS is a completely different engine ruleset. Will they be quick at the start of the straight? Yup, they DO have tq. Of course, they have live axles, so getting going at the begining of the straight will be tricky at certain courses. But...they don't rev to 7K, much less 9K! So, they will top out sooner, and brake sooner. Having these cars in the class looks to me like a classic battle, David vs Goliath, if you will.

They will require racecraft and skill to get around...which is EXACTLY what multi marque racing is all about.

( I think the litmus test, in my mind on whether a car is a good fit in a class, is when I look at the listing I don't think to myself." Now THIS car could rock", then go right to ebay!)

[Team SSR]

So when could we expect to see if these cars are classified?

[Ron Earp]

I love the Pony cars, but, as a Steward, the disparity in weights and horsepower make me nervous, and the idea of an ITC/ITR pony car clash is not a pleasant one.

Krys Dean

As Jake mentions, the weight issue isn't a valid argument when discussing ITR cars. There are already cars in ITR that weigh as much as the Pony cars would. Besides, ITC doesn't run with ITR anywhere that I am aware of except for the 13 Hour Charge of the Headlight Brigade enduro. And, even there, the ITR cars aren't the fastest cars running the race, so the ITC vs ITR argument doesn't hold water in that instance as there are faster cars to be concerned with than ITR.

If "the weight issue" were to be forced as an argument then it would setup an problem within ITR itself. We'd have to remove the light-weights from the ITR class, the Celica and Integra Type R, to make ITR consistent with "the weight issue". Celica is in the class at like 2300, about the weight of some C and B cars, while the BMW 330 (in class now), 300zx (in class now), and the proposed Pony Cars are all at about 3300 lbs.

[JoshS]

ITC will be running with ITR here in the San Francisco Region in 2008. Prior to that, ITS was the fastest class in that race group.

But that group hardly has the widest speed differentials -- another group has ITE and SSC, not that regionals ever have more than 1 SSC car.

I have run National races with GTL and T2 in the same race group, which has big speed and weight differentials too. The drivers can handle big differentials.

Bottom line, it's of no concern for me, and certainly not something we should base classing decisions on. If the race officials want to change groups if class compositions change, that's up to the race officials.

[JeffYoung]

I intend to add the "Japanese Car Catcher" nose plow to my 89 ITR Mulletmobile and go Teg and 240sx hunting in the braking zone for turn 1 at VIR next year. Miatas are too small game. Not enough meat on the bones. CRXs don't even qualify as cars.

Hmmmmm.....I love the smell of cracked rotor in the morning. Soldier, you WILL trail brake that corner!

[Z3_GoCar]

ITC will be running with ITR here in the San Francisco Region in 2008. Prior to that, ITS was the fastest class in that race group.

But that group hardly has the widest speed differentials -- another group has ITE and SSC, not that regionals ever have more than 1 SSC car.

I have run National races with GTL and T2 in the same race group, which has big speed and weight differentials too. The drivers can handle big differentials.

Bottom line, it's of no concern for me, and certainly not something we should base classing decisions on. If the race officials want to change groups if class compositions change, that's up to the race officials.

That's nothing for a speed/weight differential. I have video from a race at Willow Springs. In my run group, Andy Potterfield in his GT-1 Camero and two H-Production Sprites. Slightly slower, but heavier than Andy were several Super-Production cars inclusing a Ranger Pickup. BTW, we have an IT only run group. So in So-Pac ITR runs with ITC. The only IT cars not to run in this group is ITE, which runs with GT/SP/AS/RS/B-GP.

James