Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: Camaros and Firebirds in ITR

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    3,682

    Red face

    Jeff Young and I recently submitted a proposal to the ITAC to class Pony Cars, V8 Camaros, Firebirds, and Mustangs, in ITR. Clearly the years classed are somewhat limited due to horsepower concerns for ITR. The year breakdown is roughly:

    89-93 Mustang GT/LX 5.0L
    87-92 F-Body
    94-95 Mustang GT

    I feel the cars will certainly increase the ranks in ITR and give enthusiasts of these cars a place to race in IT. If you are interested in racing one of these cars in the future please write a letter to the Board of Directors ([email protected]) indicating your position.

    Thanks,
    Ron


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Black Rock, Ct
    Posts
    9,594

    Default

    I must add that I have received the proposal, and Mr. Earp and Mr. Young have done an excellent job. Now it's up to the ITAC and the CRB, and that means YOU! If you have issues with the idea, hit "compose" and send an email to "[email protected]'.......... likewise, if you support the idea, we need to hear from you!

    This is a club about the members...the ITAC tries to do right by you, and we don't always agree, but, without input, we don't even know if we do..or don't.
    Jake Gulick


    CarriageHouse Motorsports
    for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
    IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
    Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
    BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
    GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
    New England Region
    lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    25

    Default

    I sent in my input to the CRB (I was in favor). I did not mention that the inner redneck thought it would be cool to run these cars.

    Jim
    #11 IT7 - MARRS

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    raleigh, nc, usa
    Posts
    5,252

    Default

    Amen bro, I've got one of those (an inner redneck) around somewhere, but he/it wants to build a Mercury Capri. How come now classy?
    NC Region
    1980 ITS Triumph TR8

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    LaCrosse Wis
    Posts
    302

    Default

    Is this mixing apples and oranges. As an owner of a type r integra, I gotta believe that the on track performance will in now way similar to the mix of the vast majority of ITR high rpm 3 liter range engines.

    If we need another V8 class besides American Sedan, then create it. I suspect the whole of ITR would be outraged if V8 iron is lumped into the class.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Sterling, VA
    Posts
    734

    Default

    I think that is awesome and always thought it was a shame that there were no IT Pony cars.
    Spanky | #73 ITA 1990 Honda Civic WDCR SOLD | #73 ITA 1995 Honda Civic WDCR in progress |
    ** Sponsored by J&L Automotive (703) 327-5239 | Engineered Services, Inc. http://www.EngineeredServices.com **

    Isaac Rules | Build Pictures

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Staying off the walls
    Posts
    1,049

    Default I don't have much to say about this thread

    since they won't be in my (IT7) run group other than I really like Jake's avitar.
    Tom Sprecher

  8. #8

    Default

    Whoa guys, I am not so sure this is a good idea, better you should run in ITO (SEDIV class for unlimited IT cars similar to SPO). I love the Pony cars, but, as a Steward, the disparity in weights and horsepower make me nervous, and the idea of an ITC/ITR pony car clash is not a pleasant one. Give it some thought, ITO could be a lot of fun.

    Krys Dean

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Black Rock, Ct
    Posts
    9,594

    Default

    ????
    Huh?
    I must be missing the point, because, that comment makes no sense to me, sorry.

    Fact: The Pony cars are being considered at weights that are within the limits of ITR, and there are cars listed at similar weights already. So, calling "foul" on the weight thing is a non issue. Especially when I look around and see some of the run groups I've seen!

    Fact: The Hp levels are (again,) through the magic of proper classification, within the scope of ITR, and match well against..you guessed it, cars listed already!

    Specifically, the cars submitted for classification are not the Cobras and the Zo6 engined V8s that I think people assume they are. These cars are 195 Hp cars, limited by heads or cams or weird injection in the motor department, and by live axles and possibly sketchy brakes in the other areas.

    The key to classing them properly is to make sure the strengths offset the weaknesses. They WON'T be putting down AS level power...FAR from it...AS is a completely different engine ruleset. Will they be quick at the start of the straight? Yup, they DO have tq. Of course, they have live axles, so getting going at the begining of the straight will be tricky at certain courses. But...they don't rev to 7K, much less 9K! So, they will top out sooner, and brake sooner. Having these cars in the class looks to me like a classic battle, David vs Goliath, if you will.

    They will require racecraft and skill to get around...which is EXACTLY what multi marque racing is all about.

    ( I think the litmus test, in my mind on whether a car is a good fit in a class, is when I look at the listing I don't think to myself." Now THIS car could rock", then go right to ebay!)
    Jake Gulick


    CarriageHouse Motorsports
    for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
    IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
    Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
    BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
    GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
    New England Region
    lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    statesville, NC USA
    Posts
    167

    Default

    So when could we expect to see if these cars are classified?
    1984 Porsche 944 ITS #54

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    3,682

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by krysdean View Post
    I love the Pony cars, but, as a Steward, the disparity in weights and horsepower make me nervous, and the idea of an ITC/ITR pony car clash is not a pleasant one.

    Krys Dean
    As Jake mentions, the weight issue isn't a valid argument when discussing ITR cars. There are already cars in ITR that weigh as much as the Pony cars would. Besides, ITC doesn't run with ITR anywhere that I am aware of except for the 13 Hour Charge of the Headlight Brigade enduro. And, even there, the ITR cars aren't the fastest cars running the race, so the ITC vs ITR argument doesn't hold water in that instance as there are faster cars to be concerned with than ITR.

    If "the weight issue" were to be forced as an argument then it would setup an problem within ITR itself. We'd have to remove the light-weights from the ITR class, the Celica and Integra Type R, to make ITR consistent with "the weight issue". Celica is in the class at like 2300, about the weight of some C and B cars, while the BMW 330 (in class now), 300zx (in class now), and the proposed Pony Cars are all at about 3300 lbs.
    Last edited by Ron Earp; 02-04-2008 at 09:27 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,381

    Default

    ITC will be running with ITR here in the San Francisco Region in 2008. Prior to that, ITS was the fastest class in that race group.

    But that group hardly has the widest speed differentials -- another group has ITE and SSC, not that regionals ever have more than 1 SSC car.

    I have run National races with GTL and T2 in the same race group, which has big speed and weight differentials too. The drivers can handle big differentials.

    Bottom line, it's of no concern for me, and certainly not something we should base classing decisions on. If the race officials want to change groups if class compositions change, that's up to the race officials.
    Josh Sirota
    ITR '99 BMW Z3 Coupe

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    raleigh, nc, usa
    Posts
    5,252

    Default

    I intend to add the "Japanese Car Catcher" nose plow to my 89 ITR Mulletmobile and go Teg and 240sx hunting in the braking zone for turn 1 at VIR next year. Miatas are too small game. Not enough meat on the bones. CRXs don't even qualify as cars.

    Hmmmmm.....I love the smell of cracked rotor in the morning. Soldier, you WILL trail brake that corner!
    NC Region
    1980 ITS Triumph TR8

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    3,682

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffYoung View Post
    ITR Mulletmobile and go Teg
    That'd be a Type Arrrrrrrhhhhh to you matey!

    "I've got a Teg" is just plain gay on a thread about Mulletmobiles.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    raleigh, nc, usa
    Posts
    5,252

    Default

    Amen Bro! What IS a Teg by the way? Is that like Tegma, you know dick cheese or something?

    My Beyatchin' Maro is going to refight WWII in every braking zone at CMP. Land of the Rising Sun my 305 cubic inch ass!

    [p.s. -- no offense to the Teg boys, just riffin' here]
    NC Region
    1980 ITS Triumph TR8

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    3,682

    Arrow

    Well, don't punt my Land O the Rising Sun Z car off at turn one with your 305 inch Mulletmobile. It is likely I'll still be racing it for some time to come.

    Especially if my alternative is to drive a Teg.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    IT.com "First Loser" Greensboro, NC USA
    Posts
    8,607

    Default

    Chuckle all you want but regardless of how good the idea is, or how well presented the proposal, I've come to the conclusion that there are just some folks who have fundamental biases against the idea of 'merican iron soiling the Deutcheswundersautosundtourenwagen class.

    I haven't seen another proposal in recent memory that is so buried in red herrings.

    K

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,717

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    ITC will be running with ITR here in the San Francisco Region in 2008. Prior to that, ITS was the fastest class in that race group.

    But that group hardly has the widest speed differentials -- another group has ITE and SSC, not that regionals ever have more than 1 SSC car.

    I have run National races with GTL and T2 in the same race group, which has big speed and weight differentials too. The drivers can handle big differentials.

    Bottom line, it's of no concern for me, and certainly not something we should base classing decisions on. If the race officials want to change groups if class compositions change, that's up to the race officials.
    That's nothing for a speed/weight differential. I have video from a race at Willow Springs. In my run group, Andy Potterfield in his GT-1 Camero and two H-Production Sprites. Slightly slower, but heavier than Andy were several Super-Production cars inclusing a Ranger Pickup. BTW, we have an IT only run group. So in So-Pac ITR runs with ITC. The only IT cars not to run in this group is ITE, which runs with GT/SP/AS/RS/B-GP.

    James
    Last edited by Z3_GoCar; 02-05-2008 at 12:51 AM. Reason: spelling
    STU BMW Z3 2.5liter

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    raleigh, nc, usa
    Posts
    5,252

    Default

    We understand. I think the humor on our side comes from seeing no other way to deal with irrational (red herring) arguments about why these cars should not be in R. Hell, I remember one comment during the initial ITR discussions about them that went something like "I had one when I was sixteen and that thing would lay a 100 ft. wheel -- no way is that car in ITR with a Hondura Tegma 2000."

    Silliness. The cars clearly fit by the numbers, most people want them in, TONS of folks are interested in buidling them (I am not by the way) and yet there is a debate?

    Total screw up by SCCA leadership if this does not go through for the reasons I've heard to date.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knestis View Post
    Chuckle all you want but regardless of how good the idea is, or how well presented the proposal, I've come to the conclusion that there are just some folks who have fundamental biases against the idea of 'merican iron soiling the Deutcheswundersautosundtourenwagen class.

    I haven't seen another proposal in recent memory that is so buried in red herrings.

    K
    NC Region
    1980 ITS Triumph TR8

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Black Rock, Ct
    Posts
    9,594

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Knestis View Post
    Chuckle all you want but regardless of how good the idea is, or how well presented the proposal, I've come to the conclusion that there are just some folks who have fundamental biases against the idea of 'merican iron soiling the Deutcheswundersautosundtourenwagen class.

    I haven't seen another proposal in recent memory that is so buried in red herrings.

    K
    It's the lay of the land, Kirk. And it's OK that way. Sometimes things need explanations...the opposition needs awakening, or enlightening. And that's fine. It makes me do my homework, understand the big picture, forces me to think outside the box, from another point of view, and to look for ways to explain things differently.

    I've certainly been guilty of reacting to proposals without thinking them through completely, then changing my mind as I researched them. (just ask Dick, who's probably changed my mind...or should I say "opened" it, with one statement more than most people i know)

    In the end, when reason is discussed, prejudices should fall away.
    Jake Gulick


    CarriageHouse Motorsports
    for sale: 2003 Audi A4 Quattro, clean, serviced, dark green, auto, sunroof, tan leather with 75K miles.
    IT-7 #57 RX-7 race car
    Porsche 1973 911E street/fun car
    BMW 2003 M3 cab, sun car.
    GMC Sierra Tow Vehicle
    New England Region
    lateapex911(at)gmail(dot)com


Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •