Such a thing as a daily driver that tows?

[Jake]

Jeff, I'm sorry - you're truck is the best! And certainly a great choice for everyone. Oh, and Jeff - there's no reason to read any more of this post, it's not for you.

We did a test this year comparing Light duty (150/1500) pickups to Heavy Duty (250/2500) trucks with Diesels. There's no question that Diesels motors are more efficient than gas motors, but since the big three force you to buy a HD truck to the get the Diesel, the added heft of those trucks eliminates any gas savings. (and yes the fuel itself even costs more) So if you can get by with the towing and load capacity of the Light Duty truck, you'd be crazy to get the Diesel. (and there isn't an open trailer/race car combo that couldn't get away with a 150 or 1500 truck)

This is the first time we ever did this, and unlike the EPA, we don't exempt the big trucks from our instrumented fuel economy tests.

As for Jeff's brake data - I personally instrumented and tested the stopping distance of a Ram 2500 Diesel. From 60mph it stopped in 176 ft in the dry, and 205 ft in the wet. I believe that's the worst we've recorded in at least 10 years. For comparison, a Toyota 4Runner does the same in 132ft dry, 146ft wet.

[Jeremy Billiel]

Wow - we HAVE drifted OT - but I do want to address the "Diesel Trucks get great fuel economy" stuff.

Just to clarify, we did a test this year comparing Light duty (150/1500) pickups to Heavy Duty (250/2500) trucks with Diesels. There's no question that Diesels motors are more efficient than gas motors, but since the big three force you to buy a HD truck to the get the Diesel, the added heft of those trucks eliminates any gas savings. (and yes the fuel itself even costs more) So if you can get by with the towing and load capacity of the Light Duty truck, you'd be crazy to get the Diesel. (and there isn't an open trailer/race car combo that couldn't get away with a 150 or 1500 truck)

This is the first time we ever did this, and unlike the EPA, we don't exempt the big trucks from our instrumented fuel economy tests.

Jeff - you are welcome to call me an ass again, I have no interest in calling you names. But I do like to inform if I do have information. As for your brake data - I personally instrumented and tested the stopping distance of a Ram 2500 Diesel. From 60mph it stopped in 176 ft in the dry, and 205 ft in the wet. I believe that's the worst we've recorded in at least 10 years. For comparison, a Toyota 4Runner does the same in 132ft dry, 146ft wet.
[/b]

With brakes that big how does it take so long to stop? I know my Ford stops on a dime, even more so with weight on the back or in the bed. Perhaps I can see the longer times because the backs do struggle for traction.

[Jake]

With brakes that big how does it take so long to stop? I know my Ford stops on a dime, even more so with weight on the back or in the bed. Perhaps I can see the longer times because the backs do struggle for traction.
[/b]

Good question - yes the brakes are huge. But I think that's more about resisting fade when you load the bed to GVWR. The distances are most likely due to the tires. The big HD trucks need tires that can deal with the load and the pressures required to support that load. We're talking around 60psi or more. (BTW to get an idea of how bad these trucks ride - inflate your tires that high and you'll get a rough idea). Basically I think the tires are designed for load - not traction.

[Ron Earp]

but since the big three force you to buy a HD truck to the get the Diesel, the added heft of those trucks eliminates any gas savings.
[/b]

I complained about this ever since becoming "interested" in trucks when I started racing two years ago (or trying to race). But, maybe things like this will come to pass:

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2006/10...to_offer_d.html

I think there would be a fairly large market for diesels like these once US consumers get over their fear of diesels. Europe has long had powerful, quiet, and efficient diesels under 5L that are not as "industrial" as our large truck motors from GM, Dodge, and Ford (International, Cummins - great motors BTW).

One of the most enjoyable cars I have driven in Europe was a VW wagon with the V6 turbo diesel and a six speed manual. Taking a motor similar to that, maybe a tad larger for a bit more torque, and putting it in a small truck would be fantastic. Might even give up my Lightning for a F150 diesel....nah, I like my smokey burnouts and sleeper stoplight shutdowns too much.

R