Coincidence?

[Chris Wire]

OK, I'm starting this to gather opinions, not to have this drug down some alternate path as has been done to like discussions in the past. I'll be purposely vague to avoid just that.

Sebring '06, I am racing mid pack and come upon a group of cars. Instantly, my eyes start to water and burn almost to the point where I can't see. Luckily, I have no cars around me except those in front of me, so I back off and in a few corners the condition subsides and I finish the race. Not exactly happy, but I'm OK with it because I didn't think too much of it.

Fast forward a year. I'm in a different car at the same track. Six laps into the race I run up on another group of cars and instantly my eyes start burning and watering again. Same model cars in front of me, although not the same exact cars. This time the watering is so bad I have to pull off to the side of the track and wave everyone by thus killing my race. This time I'm a bit more upset.

Anyone else have the same experience? I don't know if it's a fuel thing with the cars ahead or not, but I do know that it's not an exhaust thing with the car I'm driving. I've had that happen to me twice in two different cars also, and the symptoms are altogether different. I don't care to point fingers at the 'who', but I am very interested in sourcing out the 'what'. We don't seem to do much (if any) fuel testing here in CFR, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone was dabbling in some funny stuff. I am most concerned due to the safety issue that it raises on the track. If I was dicing, or if it happened again in a high-speed section of the track, like T1 @ Sebring or T12 @ RA, I'm not certain that it wouldn't cause a major incident.

Thoughts?

[itracer]

Encourage fuel testing. My brother has witnessed the same thing. It is an additive to the fuel. Also, you can talk to the drivers about the fuel and/or protest. Luckily for us the material was banned and fuel testing came out right after that, so it went away.

[CaptainWho]

I agree with Jason ... someone is either running an additive or "non-traditional" fuel. It may be legal, or not. Based on your physical reaction, I'd guess there's a good chance it ought to be "not".

We've smelled stuff like this from our corner stations a few times. Unfortunately, we've never been able to narrow down which car it was. But we did let Race Control know about it and which group of cars we smelled it from. I don't know if anything ever came of those reports.

Luckily, out on the corners, we're not likely to get ill effects even from fairly nasty fumes, since we're in the open air and the cars circulating keeps the air stirred up. If I smelled it from inside my car, race or no race, I'd either zoom around the suspect cars if I could or pull off if I couldn't. Some additives cause really nasty stuff in the exhaust, and I don't know which are which so I don't want to risk it.

[BlueStreak]

Never happened to me, yet, but I have to ask:

How bad a driver do you have to be to cheat with dangerous fuel additives?

[Quickshoe]

How bad a driver do you have to be to cheat with dangerous fuel additives?[/b]

Wow! IF they are running a fuel that passes the test how is that cheating?

DC 15 MAX right?

Further, the ITCS allows for "oil and oil additives are unrestricted". Rotaries mix the fuel and oil....

If you don't want the types of fuels out there that do that sort of thing (I know I don't) then create a rule that disallows them and a test to find them.

Just because it irritates the crap out of your mucus membranes doesn't mean that it won't pass the fuel test any more than just because it doesn't bother you indicates it will.

[Z3_GoCar]

Most likely you've got a Good-ol-boy adding Methanol to his fuel. Have you ever been around a methanol burner?? The main product is formaldehyde, which can be toxic, and eye's water just like cutting an onion. The real question is why are they adding Methanol? To really get the power out you need a 12:1 compression ratio or higher, and then they need to dump fuel in, which usually means a new fuel pump and lines to get the volume flow rates.

James

[ddewhurst]

The fule may be legal or maybe illegal. Spend some time at a short oval track & the tearing eyes are similar. Because in my mind it's a safety issue narrow the number of cars to 1 or 2, tell the drivers your going to protest their fuel. Same deal in another race protest the 1 or 2 you have identified.

[SATURNRACER]

I had the same thing happen to me at Daytona.
After practice and qualifying I got so sick my head was pounding that I did not go out to dinner with my crew.
Next morning I was fine.. tilll after the race I was battling with a quick RX 7 from Miami that was spewing flames every time he let off. I would get him in the infield and he would pass me on the high banks.
I never put the two together
o.b.

[eprodrx7]

Over the years this has happened a few times to me also. Most times it is when I'm lapping slower cars, which leads me to believe that exotic additives are not the culprit. Lets face it the guys that are spending $15-20 a gallon are not going to be running in the back right? I attribute the watering eyes more to 100k mile junk yard motors that are burning as much oil as gas.

[Kolin Aspegren]

I've run into the same thing, a rx7 at daytona, sm at roebling (which would not idle to save its life) and
mutiple srf at vir. Watery eyes and choking, my solution was to lift and let them go before I got sick.
Would take a good two laps to get over my vision and throat problems.

k

[lateapex911]

Most times it is when I'm lapping slower cars, which leads me to believe that exotic additives are not the culprit. Lets face it the guys that are spending $15-20 a gallon are not going to be running in the back right? [/b]

That sounds logical, John, but often cheaters cheat because they are running at the back..or the middle (You lap those guys too, right? )

And they cheat because they don't get the core of the issue, it's not just the car, it's the driver.

[Chris Wire]

That sounds logical, John, but often cheaters cheat because they are running at the back..or the middle (You lap those guys too, right? )

And they cheat because they don't get the core of the issue, it's not just the car, it's the driver.
[/b]

This is my belief as well. That's not to say there aren't cheaters at the front, but it seems to be less so because the drivers gotz mo' skillz.

I didn't have any throat or respiratory problems, and the burning/watering eyes didn't start and build up gradually, it seems like it was almost instantly.

I know that it can't be healthy to breath whatever it is, but my concern is more safety than health related. And I don't recall a specific odor, although in a racecar I seem to be subjected to various odors during a race (oil, tires, brakes, coolant, exhaust, etc.). The fact that I didn't get a nauseated feeling leads me to believe is was not simply exhaust fumes or burning oil from a used-up motor.

Are there exotic fuels or additives that you guys suspect are being used?

[gsbaker]

I possess limited skills in chemistry Chris, so I can't help there. I can say, however, that getting a noseful of the gunk that comes out the exhaust of nitromethane-burning dragsters makes one wish they'd spent the day inside of a rotting cow carcass.

[Quickshoe]

I can say, however, that getting a noseful of the gunk that comes out the exhaust of nitromethane-burning dragsters makes one wish they'd spent the day inside of a rotting cow carcass.
[/b]

Wuss.

VP C-44 perhaps?


Cheaters in middle of the pack? I've encountered cheaters everywhere in the grid. Cheating is a result of their ethics, not their skills or budget.

[rsx858]

do you race with your helmet visor up or down? I run an rx7 and we premix oil in our fuel. I to get eye problems fairly regularly out on the track.. notice it more when i step out of the car after the race they water like mad.

[MMiskoe]

I know nothing about fuel additives, but I have been around plenty of cars that make me cry (and not crying from envy, those are different).

My dad had Z car that would get exhaust fumes inside the car if the tail pipe wasn't right. It would be awful after a few laps and that car was just running pump gas.

I remember trying to tune a carbed car that was running race fuel and was so over fueled that even w/ the car pushed outside the shop it was unbearable.

So it may not be so much of an additive as it is a poorly running car. SRF's are carbed (aren't they?), were the other offending cars FI or carbed?

[x-ring]

SRF's are carbed (aren't they?)
[/b]

Nope.

[Chris Wire]

were the other offending cars FI or carbed?
[/b]

EFI.

As I said before, I don't believe it was related to exhaust fumes from the car I was in because of the spotty nature of the effects. I spent one practice session on Sat. with no problems. I was in the car for about 6 laps on Sun. with no problems. The symptoms arose shortly after I caught some mid-packers (I started from the rear of the field), and eased up once I backed off and let them go. Very isolated.

Looking at the results from mylaps I kinda have it narrowed down to 2-3 possible offenders. Maybe with a bit more research I'll have an even better idea who to watch out for.

[SATURNRACER]

10 130 Derak Mason 7 21:38.728 1:03.247 2:46.017 4 80.233 -
11 73 Scott Neville 7 21:48.066 1:12.585 2:47.855 6 79.354 -
12 75 Paul Hensel 7 21:48.353 1:12.872 2:48.022 7 79.275 -
13 99 Ron Valli 7 21:49.759 1:14.278 2:47.847 7 79.358 -
14 57 Greene Isaacs 7 22:03.839 1:28.358 2:48.980 5 78.826 -
15 157 Chris Wire 7 22:15.934 1:40.453 2:46.350 6 80.072 -
16 01 Thomas Brady 7 22:26.896 1:51.415 2:52.552 5 77.194 -
17 128 Joseph Benoit 7 22:28.855 1:53.374 2:51.023


Would these be the so called mid pack group?
Because I was behind two of these guys in practice and it was nasty!

[Chris Wire]

Would these be the so called mid pack group?
Because I was behind two of these guys in practice and it was nasty!
[/b]

Take your pick.