Palmer Motorsports Park gains local approval

[ner88]

NHMS likes SCCA, with a new road course possibly in the future we could have lots of dates available. I understand we have been going thru some construction issues this year but they are certainly more user friendly than most tracks I'm aware of and priced very reasonably. What other track offers a full test and tune day for $150.?
LRP will always be there and if NER dosen't run an event someother region will for sure as long as racers go. NER's best attanded event so far this year was LRP.
If, sorry, when Palmer is up and running what then? If you read this forum all I hear is there are too many races now!

[gran racing]

You choose to host events at the tracks that racers and workers like the most, and ones that do decent for the region.

[Andy Bettencourt]

You have fewer races at more tracks Jerry. Maybe that would be what racers want.

But your guys keep doing what you are doing. Keep risking the fiscal health of your Region just to 'keep dates'. Ignore a smaller series like Pro IT that only has 8 races at a ton of tracks and its' popularity. All the Regions keep putting on their events and barely get by. No problem.

Just don't expect any new suggestions when we wonder why the RAL weekend has 62 cars registered only 2 weeks away. It's ok, really.

Slim down NERRC, strategically place NARRC races (slimmed down as well), slim down everything and work together to decrease supply and increase value.

It has to be a team effort.

[BruceG]

It seems like alot of us are closest to LRP, NHMS and Palmer when it happens. For me in southern VT, LRP and NHMS are about the same drive and Palmer would be the closest by 1 hr.

WJ is at least an hour plus more for me than the above tracks....and NJMP and Pocono are beyond my budget and desire to drive at...just sayin' in MHO.

[ner88]

I'm all for fewer date but if we cut back there is no guarantee that other regions/tracks will do the same.
Cut back NARRC to one event at each track is fine with me too.
I like the PRO IT but financially it's a looser for any region, it's a great supplement to a National but not worth giving up track time at a regional

[Doc Bro]

Dump Pocono. We only keep it for regional politics anyway.

R

[dickita15]

You have fewer races at more tracks Jerry. Maybe that would be what racers want.

But your guys keep doing what you are doing. Keep risking the fiscal health of your Region just to 'keep dates'. Ignore a smaller series like Pro IT that only has 8 races at a ton of tracks and its' popularity. All the Regions keep putting on their events and barely get by. No problem.

Just don't expect any new suggestions when we wonder why the RAL weekend has 62 cars registered only 2 weeks away. It's ok, really.

Slim down NERRC, strategically place NARRC races (slimmed down as well), slim down everything and work together to decrease supply and increase value.

It has to be a team effort.

We have to remember to look at these from different people’s point of view. There are plenty of racers who just race at NHMS for instance and race most all of those races just as there are racers who just run Summit.
The Pro It has been very popular with its driver base but you must remember you are only talking about 40 drivers who follow the series compared with 700-900 that run a Narrc race in a given year.
We need to keep a lot of different agendas in mind when you craft a master plan.
IMO the RAL date would be much better attended if it was just 2 weeks earlier.

[lateapex911]

Dump Pocono. We only keep it for regional politics anyway.

R

The only time I've been there since 97 was last year when I decided to go after the NARRC championship. I hate the track, the food, (usually the weather too, LOL) and I'm no fan of the area. The people were nice. But I'll only go back if I decide to go for a NARRC Championship again. I'd LOVE it if it wasn't on the NARRC schedule if and when I get the Championship urge again. (Next car)

[Robert Zecca]

Guys,

I have been reading this thread and try to bite my tongue. I think many of you are finally getting it. We do need to make changes for 2010 and we need to get together at the upcoming Mini Con to make these changes. Too bad it has to be so far away for most of us.

The bottom line is so far in 2009 the begining of the year has been very weak for events and this turned mid year. We have seen great events at the Glen, Lime Rock, NJMP, Pocono and almost everywhere was a money maker....finally....even MOHUD made money at LRP due to thinking outside of the box on behalf of Jack Hanifan. We need to work as SCCA MEMBERS and not SCCA REGIONS. This is how I have committed myself this year to all regions and members and not just to my regions. I hate reading about things like region politics.... this is bs....I want to see everyone get together and work together. Freedom of speech works but we now need some type of leadership to ensure that the positive strides we have made in 2009 continue into 2010.

Regarding Palmer I really do not know what to say. If it does come to fruition it will be survival of the fittest and due to its location being so far north it will pull mostly from the NE. Palmer will need deep pockets to get thru the next three years. Just ask NJMP. LRP will survive as will NHMS and Pocono. If this track does happen then we need more workers to support all these tracks. ANY IDEAS? We are already at a shortage.

I hope that we can get together soon as members to work on these problems. It is just not about racing but a much bigger picture.

Hope to see most of you at NJMP this weekend. We have close to 190 cars for the regional and the reason is this track has a great location and is finally starting to pull from the south. Who wants to run at a track where we only get 100-130 entries. Yeah you may make money but THIS IS NOT COMPETITION. Years ago when I raced I would drive thru the night to get to Charlotte or Mid Ohio or even fly to Road America or Sebring. I raced at 13 tracks and spent a wade of cash but at least I got to drive against more than 3 cars in a class.

The same can be done locally and make racing great again in the NE if we work together. Stay positive guys and thanks for making this year very successful despite the economy.

Sincerely,
Bob Zecca

[gran racing]

I honestly don't think Palmer will face an issue anytime soon if it lives up to what I've heard (a racer's track, lots of elevation changes). There's a ton of excitement surrounding this track. Of course it will have an impact on other events and tracks.

[megmeyer]

From what I am seeing, the biggest impact of so many tracks/events, is trying to get workers - especially flaggers. They get burnt out with events just about every weekend. It is getting harder and harder to adequately staff each race. The racers will do what they do. Most will try a new track if it is within whatever towing distance they have set for themselves, or even go once just to check it out. If they really like it, they may return. But mostly, they go within a certain radius. Workers seem to wander farther afield, probably because they don't need to tow a race car! But, there is still a distinct limit to the number of weekends most people are willing to commit to.

My two cents. It's more about the workers right now than it is the drivers. And it may come down to regions needing to price everything so they can give even a small stipend to workers to help with the expenses. The alternative we have at NJMP is to pay the track for their workers (which we may have to do for the test day this weekend). That will drive the entry fees up even higher. SCCA has a long history of being one of the most affordable ways to go racing. That may need to change in order to be able to hold events.

Meg - who isn't even racing this year due to money issues

[lateapex911]

When Palmer comes online, I assume that NER (which, I think, 'owns' rights to the track both from an SCCA point of view and I bet, a business agreement/contractual angle) will need to reallocate it's dates. I can not see ADDing dates/weekends. That would be foolish. I wouldn't shed a tear if all but one NHMS dates goes to Palmer, if the track is as good as it seems to look on papaer.

Now, if NHMS rebuilds the roadcourse, well, we have an embarassment of riches.!

[wdether]

I agree with Megan, the pool of workers is limited and more tracks/events could make the current problem worse. F&C are not the only specialty that has trouble attracting volunteers, there were two national races in the NE last year where only two scrutineers worked the event (one was at LRP, ask me how I know). The days of travelling to 9 - 12 races a year are over, my selection of races will be more selective in the future. Given the choice of travelling up to a new track (like Palmer) or going to LRP I will choose the new track anytime. LRP lost its magic or interest for me when Skippy started to screw the regions.

Bob, how can you assume LRP and Pocono will survive? The only reason people go to Pocono for the regional is becuase it is on the NARRC schedule and part of the PRO-IT series. Being a double is the only reason anyone shows up for the national race at Pocono. LRP is by far the most expensive track can be financial suicide to have multiple regional races there (beyond the NARRC Runoffs and national race). Mohud did well becuase it was a national race and Jack did something different (good job by Mohud).

Palmer would be closer to Mohud than LRP, I could see Mohud transferring its races to Palmer. If NHMS builds the roadcourse, why would NER need to race at LRP?

[JLawton]

Dump the LRP races. I'm sure the prices are going to go up because there are other clubs who are willing to pay it.

[Robert Zecca]

Bill when I say that Pocono and LRP will survive I mean Pocono has their NASCAR events and if SCCA went away they would still be making money. The same for LRP....Skip in his heart wants SCCA and for the future more than ever. I speak to him weekly since due to my 25 year business relationship with him. If SCCA decides not to go there they will still survive. The bottom line is LRP has a long-time SCCA history and as a driver I would want to race at a place where there is history and where great drivers were part of. Look at Topeka, here and gone regarding SCCA. Everyone complains about LRP but all of us still come back regardless of price and the car counts are still strong there.

Read the replies about workers. All these tracks are great and all I am saying is they better have deep pockets to survive and the regions better start to think about workers and the growth of our membership to support all these great venues. To hold an event you need paying drivers and the support groups including workers, timing and scoring and stewards. Look at the problems all regions are having trying to get timing and scoring people now and we really want to tackle more tracks. Think about what we wish for???? Show me one timing and scoring chief under the age of 56. Do we have a plan for recruitment. Lately if Linda Louie can not do the job we have to hire someone from Finger Lakes or Ohio and these are great people and over 60 years old. Everbody depends on Linda, I have known her since college years ago and say something happens to her or she is sick or burnt out what do we do. We have similiar problems in this club and I strongly feel we need to lessen some events for 2010, come up with a 5 year plan and then move forward. You guys know I all for the drivers but since I am on a board I see both sides of the fence and the "GRASS IS NOT SO GREEN ON ONE SIDE". Go for it!

[Robert Zecca]

Look at NJMP this weekend. It is an incredible facility with very deep pockets ( funded by Merrill Lynch) in an area that embraces and supports racing. It is located in a great area surrounded by millions of people within 3 hours. We have 214 cars registered for the Summer Thunder race this weekend on one track and they have a sold out BMW club event on the other track. I have been there on some weekends where they have 300-400 bikes a day on one track.
Even though this is a great facility they opened during the worst economic time they are still doing very well and when things get better these guys will fly. I just hope owners of any prospective new track do their due diligence and marketing research and not work off of emotions to make sure a new track will support itself in an area. The only reason why NHMS can survive is because of NASCAR as in the case of Pocono. A new track better have some major plans and venues because it is hard to survive just off of amateur clubs.

[gran racing]

Everyone complains about LRP but all of us still come back regardless of price and the car counts are still strong there.

People have been coming back (although car counts have been down at LRP) but how often? There will be a point where more and more people say screw LRP due to pricing whether warrented by Skippy or not and do other things with their money be it attend other races or save it. I personally am a big LRP fan, but even still I'm choosing to spend my racing money at other tracks versus doing more LRP events this year.

Palmer is an absolutely fantastic thing and will generate several new opportunites for the club / regions that host events there. Lets not lose sight of that.

I am extremely excited about the track's potential from many perspectives. Even beyond our little racing world, having a track that people in the "LRP market" can potentially offer more affordable HPDE events is a huge plus. If we're talking about volunteer and driver recruitment, getting more people into HPDEs and tapping into that resource is a good thing. There are many benefits of Pamer coming together.

[Andy Bettencourt]

Geezus. LESS EVENTS SOLVES ALL THE ISSUES. Less worker burn out, less 'supply' that spreads out the pretty static 'demand'.

[mossaidis]

As a mohud member, I am absolutely excited about Palmer as well (if you can't tell). I know Bruce Allen 4 years now from my attendance at COM events and we all knew Palmer is exactly what the Northeast needs - a track owned and more or less controlled by SCCA region NER. I feel the loyalties towards LRP and NHMS, yet as Jeff mentioned there are other clubs (both club and HPDE/TT) willing to pay more money to attend there. Basically the HPDE/TT crowd would rather spend money on performance mods and/or more expensive track time rather than safety mods and the percieved "bumper grind" and "door smashing" of SCCA (I am not kidding).

[BruceG]

Look at NJMP this weekend. It is an incredible facility with very deep pockets ( funded by Merrill Lynch) in an area that embraces and supports racing. It is located in a great area surrounded by millions of people within 3 hours. We have 214 cars registered for the Summer Thunder race this weekend on one track and they have a sold out BMW club event on the other track. I have been there on some weekends where they have 300-400 bikes a day on one track.
Even though this is a great facility they opened during the worst economic time they are still doing very well and when things get better these guys will fly. I just hope owners of any prospective new track do their due diligence and marketing research and not work off of emotions to make sure a new track will support itself in an area. The only reason why NHMS can survive is because of NASCAR as in the case of Pocono. A new track better have some major plans and venues because it is hard to survive just off of amateur clubs.

Bob....with all due respect, have you tried driving from Southern Vermont to Southern NJ? In a lighter vein, how much of our TARP money was used by Merrill Lynch to build NJMP?.....LOL