Repair question

[RacerBill]

What thickness steel should I use (1/8"? 1/4"?...gage?) to repair the frame of my car where the factory manual says I should be jacking the car up? The frame is in bad shape (rust from the inside) and I don't want to punch through it. The piece will probably be 6" long by 6" wide and have one 90 degree longatudinal bend.

Thanks.

[tom_sprecher]

I like the way you think. Weren't you in favor if jacking points in a prior thread?

I would say no thicker that .090" and make sure you get all the rust or it will come back. I'd say about 100 sqin. should do it.

Touche'

[RacerBill]

I like the way you think. Weren't you in favor if jacking points in a prior thread?

I would say no thicker that .090" and make sure you get all the rust or it will come back. I'd say about 100 sqin. should do it.

Touche'
[/b]

[Andy Bettencourt]

What thickness steel should I use (1/8"? 1/4"?...gage?) to repair the frame of my car where the factory manual says I should be jacking the car up? The frame is in bad shape (rust from the inside) and I don't want to punch through it. The piece will probably be 6" long by 6" wide and have one 90 degree longatudinal bend.

Thanks. [/b]

The same thickness the factory manual recommends for such a repair...

[Matt Rowe]

Ahh, now I see you're problem Bill, the factory jacking point should only be used with the factory jack. Or one modified to grab around that bent seam. Once you have the repair made, move about 8 inches further inboard and grab the nice flat frame member that extends forward. Coincidentally it's also allows the perfect balance point to get both wheels off the ground at once.

[joeg]

.250" is far too thick. No more than less than half that thickness.

Cheers.

[tom_sprecher]

The same thickness the factory manual recommends for such a repair...
[/b]

I have see this statement used more than once and due to the recent discussion on jacking points it has peaked my interest.

In the Body section of my Workshop Manual copyrighted by Mazda there are many detailed instructions to R&R the bonnet, bumpers, glass, doors, etc. and a body dimension checking drawing. Unfortunately, it doesn't say dick about what the factory recommends as far as material, thickness, method or extend of any type of body repair.

And at the same time, believe it or not, I might have some "rust holes" developing on each side of the car that by shear coincidence appear to be located at the perfect balance point, front to rear, if you were to jack the car there. What's a guy ta do?

[JoshS]

The factory is not going to have a recommendation for "rust repair" that involves introducing some extra metal of any kind.

The factory repair recommendation is going to be to replace the rusted body panel with a new, factory-produced piece.

The rulebook says:
"All chassis/structural/electrical repair, if performed, shall be
in concurrence with factory procedures, specifications, and
dimensions. Unless specifically authorized by the manufacturer
for repair or allowed by these rules, no reinforcement, i.e.,
seam welding, material addition, etc., is permitted."

So if your shop manual or other manufacturer documentation doesn't explain how to add metal to repair rust, then, sorry, you cannot add material, period. Seems cut-and-dried to me.

[tom_sprecher]

I really need to start using that <sarcasm on/off> switch Butch recommends.

<sarcasm on>

So, what yer sayin&#39; is since there is no specifically authorized by the manufacturer in their authorized repair manual for my rusted floor pan you think if I called “the factory” they would recommend that I replace my entire floor pan with a new one that is no longer available for my ’83 RX-7?

Do you have any idea how many pieces are are spot welded to that part? For starters there&#39;s the frame rails, cross members, rocker boxes and then it only gets worse from there. We&#39;re talking the floor pan here.

Or do ya think "the factory" would recommend I take it to the nearest body repair shop and have the area patched?

Hmmmm. Seems like a grey area to me. I&#39;ll just call "the factory" and find out. Just so happens I have them on speed dial by the way and they&#39;re always eager to take my calls.

For the fellers with 25+ year old cars y’all might have to make some ‘ceptions for us po’ folk who can’t afferd them fancy new rides.

<sarcasm off>

[1stGenBoy]

I really need to start using that <sarcasm on/off> switch Butch recommends.

<sarcasm on>

So, what yer sayin&#39; is since there is no specifically authorized by the manufacturer in their authorized repair manual for my rusted floor pan you think if I called “the factory” they would recommend that I replace my entire floor pan with a new one that is no longer available for my ’83 RX-7?

Do you have any idea how many pieces are are spot welded to that part? For starters there&#39;s the frame rails, cross members, rocker boxes and then it only gets worse from there. We&#39;re talking the floor pan here.

Or do ya think "the factory" would recommend I take it to the nearest body repair shop and have the area patched?

Hmmmm. Seems like a grey area to me. I&#39;ll just call "the factory" and find out. Just so happens I have them on speed dial by the way and they&#39;re always eager to take my calls.

For the fellers with 25+ year old cars y’all might have to make some ‘ceptions for us po’ folk who can’t afferd them fancy new rides.

<sarcasm off>
[/b]

Tom,
More sarcasm: :026:
" For the fellers with 25+ year old cars y’all might have to make some ‘ceptions for us po’ folk who can’t afferd them fancy new rides. "


It&#39;s called "PRODUCTION"

[tom_sprecher]

PRODUCTION???

NO WAY!!!

To be honest I&#39;m using IT as a stepping stone. If I am still obsessed with racing for another 6 years the next car I get will be purpose built. No stamped steel or unibody for me. Give me a tube frame, fiberglass and raw HP.

Lord, won&#39;t you buy me a fast SPO
My friends all drive Formula, that ain&#39;t the way to go
Worked hard all my life, can&#39;t save any dough
So Lord, won&#39;t you buy me a fast SPO

Thakew, Thakew virra much

[mom'sZ]

We had this discussion a while back. (about jack point repair procedures) It cropped up at the end of a thread about a fast track being released. Here&#39;s a link to the thread. http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/...topic=11242&hl=
My reply on this subject is post #44. I&#39;ll save ya the trouble of finding it, here is a quote:

Isn&#39;t there something somewhere in the good book that speaks about industry standard repair procedures? (specifically in reference to the chassis structure?)
As a former factory employed bodyman (Chrysler) I remember all kinds of factory issued info on proper unibody repair, including a manual with the weld locations (illustrations) for all the major structural elements of all the current models. Standard procedure for repairing mangled unibody structures (such as your jack points) involves panel replacement. If new is not available LKQ (like kind quality - in otherwords used) is used.

[jjjanos]

As a former factory employed bodyman (Chrysler) I remember all kinds of factory issued info on proper unibody repair, including a manual with the weld locations (illustrations) for all the major structural elements of all the current models. Standard procedure for repairing mangled unibody structures (such as your jack points) involves panel replacement. If new is not available LKQ (like kind quality - in otherwords used) is used.[/b]

Query - that would mean that slightly wrinkled fender would need to be replaced and not repaired with auto-repair putties or plastic body fillers?

Sweet Jesus.... we&#39;ve just DQ&#39;d 85% of the IT field and 100% of the Spec Miatas.

[Speed Raycer]

Bill,
14 guage would probably do nicely. It&#39;s a little less than .080 so it&#39;s got some structure to it without bing overly heavy (1/4"?!?!??!?!!!). If I had to guess I&#39;d say the factory rails were probably in the 16 or 18 ga range.

[RacerBill]

Thanks, Scott. I was going to post some other comments, but I think too highly of all of you to risk pi- - ing anyone off.

[JoshS]

Query - that would mean that slightly wrinkled fender would need to be replaced and not repaired with auto-repair putties or plastic body fillers?
[/b]

No. The rule I quoted above is for chassis/structural/electrical repairs.

Right below it in the rulebook is the rule for body repair:

"Body repair shall be performed using every reasonable effort
to maintain stock body contours, lips, etc. Any body repair
modification having as its purpose increased clearance is
prohibited. In those circumstances where stock trim/molding
pieces are unavailable through all normal replacement
channels, proof of such unavailability shall be provided by the
competitor."

I understand the frustration, I&#39;m just interpreting the rulebook. Nowhere does it allow you to add metal pieces to repair structural or chassis damage. If it doesn&#39;t say you can, then you can&#39;t. If you feel that it should say that you can, well, write a letter.

[tom_sprecher]

If it doesn&#39;t say you can, then you can&#39;t. If you feel that it should say that you can, well, write a letter.
[/b]

<sarcasm on>

Letter, schmetter! I say just do it and if it&#39;ll run, it&#39;ll ride.

<sarcasm off>