VIR SARRC/MARRS Proposal

[JeffYoung]

A couple of us have been kicking around the following idea, INFORMALLY (region leadership is not involved), on SARRC/MARRS to try and address some of the legitimate scheduling concerns both sides have.

I'm told that moving the date away from Mother's Day is probably not a possibility. However, perhaps we can help both the guys who want a 3 day event (and an early exit on Sunday) and those locals who prefer a 2 day. How about (and this is rough) the following 3 day schedule:

1. Friday - totally optional. Practice in the morning, and qual in the afternoon.

2. Saturday. Qual in the morning. Participants use the best of their Saturday qual time or their Friday afternoon qual time for the race.

3. Sunday. Races only. Saturday qual time is used. Leave early.

Thoughts?

[spnkzss]

First, I think this is a good idea to try to make things work. Even if this doesn't help for '08 and does for '09 I think it is a good idea.

First off, '07 was my first year at VIR and I have only seen the 2 day format, so I don't know what the 3 day format is like. I do like your idea, but how do you split that cost up? Personally I wish SCCA would do more practice time along with the 2 qual, but understand that is hard in a typical 2 day format even single race.

[JeffYoung]

Same cost for all. I'm an NCR guy and probably would not participate on Friday; but that is my choice. I pay the same entry fee as the MARRS guys who want to come down early.

Prior years had a three day format essentially like the above except the Friday qualifying was mandatory and gave you your starting time for Saturday's race. So, you had to be there on Friday. The only thing we are proposing is that Friday qual be optional.

[spnkzss]

Same cost for all. I'm an NCR guy and probably would not participate on Friday; but that is my choice. I pay the same entry fee as the MARRS guys who want to come down early.

Prior years had a three day format essentially like the above except the Friday qualifying was mandatory and gave you your starting time for Saturday's race. So, you had to be there on Friday. The only thing we are proposing is that Friday qual be optional.
[/b]

I can "see" people being upset with that. "Why should I pay for track time I don't use?" Personally I understand it's a choice and I WOULD be there Friday, but I can hear the screaming now.

***running to put on ear muffs***

[grjones1]

Great idea.

[seckerich]

Actually Jeff you are a little off. Friday was used to qualify for Saturday and Sunday. Seperate sessions and no practice. You had to be there or start at the back if allowed. There was a time when there was a hard luck qualifier on Sat morning and they counted that time for both races. That was a crock. We would show up Friday and run in the heat of the day and someone would show up late and run Sat morning in the cool weather and kick your butt. If you want to make it work just have the one qualifing session and let it count for Sat and Sun. Look at past results and see it is about the same grid both days. Use the extra time available to have the groups smaller and give some practice. Three day is well worth it if you just adjust it a little. Flag all the sessions on the back out of Oak to save cooldown time for practice. This race is too much fun to let die. We only get to race together once a year anyway.

[JeffYoung]

Optional practice all day Friday and a single qual Saturday a.m. works for me. Will be a long day Saturday, but I agree, too good an event to let it die for these reasons.

[spnkzss]

I think this year it was optional practice day on Friday, Qual and race Saturday and SUnday. Are you proposing less track time?

How about a Single instead of a double. Friday optional practice, Saturday 2 qual, Sunday Race? The thing is the $$$ needs to reflect 1 race instead of 2.

[seckerich]

Glad I don't let you plan the finances for my region--I would go broke. You need that double to pay what it costs to play at VIR.

[spnkzss]

Glad I don't let you plan the finances for my region--I would go broke. You need that double to pay what it costs to play at VIR.
[/b]

I thought about asking that when I was writing it, but I figured someone would say that the only reason it is a double is so we pay the higher costs for track rental. :P

[JeffYoung]

Spanky, wasn't clear. You get the entire day on Friday to practice, well two sessions really, for your regular entry fee. The optional practice day this year was a track run (not SCCA sponsored) test day for an additional $250 or so.

The flip side is I think maybe we do allow qualifying Friday afternoon. It's just optional. Everyone gets to run Saturday morning as well.

[jjjanos]

I like the idea. I like that people are taking affirmative action and not relying on a few individuals to make everything happen.

Let's cut to the chase - $$$$$ 2007 saw 2 P/Q sessions with 2 races at $375. What you are proposing is 3 P/Q sessions with 2 races for...? I cannot see paying much more than an extra $50 MAX for the extra 15 minute P/Q session unless the races were increased in length on Sunday - something that could be done since there no longer would be morning P/Q.

I like the idea in terms of getting MARRS back down there for 2009. I think the ship has left the dock for 2008. Thus, I'm not sure changes are required for 2008.

With MARRS not awarding points and the crickets in terms of returning for 2008, I'm guessing that many folks will take a pass and the crowding issues will get better.

For reference purposes:
176 drivers placed in the MARRS points last year - competed in 50% or more of events.
110 of the 176 raced at VIR.
85 of the 176 raced at Nelson.
60 of the 176 raced at both Nelson and VIR.
50 of the 110 raced at VIR but not Nelson.
25 of the 85 raced at Nelson but not VIR.

Note: Does not include drivers who earned points but did not race in 50% or more of events.
Note: Does not control for cars not ready by VIR.
Note: Does not control for skipping Nelson because it was at the end of a long stretch of racing.

[erlrich]

Let's cut to the chase - $$$$$ 2007 saw 2 P/Q sessions with 2 races at $375. What you are proposing is 3 P/Q sessions with 2 races for...? I cannot see paying much more than an extra $50 MAX for the extra 15 minute P/Q session unless the races were increased in length on Sunday - something that could be done since there no longer would be morning P/Q.[/b]

I don't remember the exact amount, but I don't believe the old (2006) three-day format was any more expensive, was it? I'm sure rental costs are up some, but would it really cost that much more to get the track on Friday?

I also like Steve's idea of practice Friday morning w/qualifying Friday afternoon. Let the single qual session count for both races, or better yet let the Saturday finishing positions dictate the Sunday starting positions. At least that way any of the MARRS drivers who didn't want to leave Thursday could skip the practice and drive down Friday morning.

[seckerich]

It was a real eye opening experience for me last year getting involved with chairing races as well as serving on the BOD and looking at the finances. You can do anything you want with the schedule as long as you get the entries. If drivers are willing to give up one qualifing session and count one for both races you get much smaller groups and can justify the friday. Just remember that the length of VIR makes for long out and in lap times so it eats up schedule. Drop the extra qualifier and you could have one 30 minute session and no excuse for not getting a clean lap. Another option is to drop the Sunday practice all together and just have a longer qual session. Changing groups kills the most time so longer sessions and less of them gives more actual track time.


My schedule would have 30 minute practice sessions by group on Friday morning. Qualify some groups (30 min) for Saturday. Resume qual Sat morning Races to follow. Drop the Sunday practice all together and have longer qual Sunday and then race. I will put it in my spreadsheet and see how it fits. Just food for thought.

[spnkzss]

It was a real eye opening experience for me last year getting involved with chairing races as well as serving on the BOD and looking at the finances. You can do anything you want with the schedule as long as you get the entries. If drivers are willing to give up one qualifing session and count one for both races you get much smaller groups and can justify the friday. Just remember that the length of VIR makes for long out and in lap times so it eats up schedule. Drop the extra qualifier and you could have one 30 minute session and no excuse for not getting a clean lap. Another option is to drop the Sunday practice all together and just have a longer qual session. Changing groups kills the most time so longer sessions and less of them gives more actual track time.
My schedule would have 30 minute practice sessions by group on Friday morning. Qualify some groups (30 min) for Saturday. Resume qual Sat morning Races to follow. Drop the Sunday practice all together and have longer qual Sunday and then race. I will put it in my spreadsheet and see how it fits. Just food for thought.
[/b]

I like that one too.

[JeffYoung]

Steve, looks good, although I would suggest that whatever you come up with, Friday has to be totally optional. If not you stand to lose NCR support and then there is a problem.

[mlytle]

one of the issues with this event this year was the two day format. putting a qual or practice session on sat and sun made less time for racing. less time for racing meant fewer run groups. few run groups meant some serious overcrowding in many of the groups. unless you move all qual and practice away from sat/sun, i don't know how you can get the run group size down.

a bunch of folks the previous year complained about the three day format taking too much time and wanted a two day format for 07.

personnally, i liked the old 3/4 day format. vir is a cool track. it is worth the extra day or two of vacation. i would drive down wed, practice thurs, qual fri and race sat/sun.

[dj10]

one of the issues with this event this year was the two day format. putting a qual or practice session on sat and sun made less time for racing. less time for racing meant fewer run groups. few run groups meant some serious overcrowding in many of the groups. unless you move all qual and practice away from sat/sun, i don't know how you can get the run group size down.

a bunch of folks the previous year complained about the three day format taking too much time and wanted a two day format for 07.

personnally, i liked the old 3/4 day format. vir is a cool track. it is worth the extra day or two of vacation. i would drive down wed, practice thurs, qual fri and race sat/sun. [/b]

This is coming up the 3rd year I'll try and make it down to this VIR event, it is a shame that MARRS dropped it but life goes on. I would thing a few DC region people would still make it down to a great track and from all indications to race with some good people.

[mlytle]

This is coming up the 3rd year I'll try and make it down to this VIR event, it is a shame that MARRS dropped it but life goes on. I would thing a few DC region people would still make it down to a great track and from all indications to race with some good people.
[/b]

with fewer cars there this year, it may be more fun, even as a two day event.

i may take you up on that veiled challenge dan!

[JamesB]

ding. ding. ding. we have a winner. everyone I know in MARRS loves VIR. But the 90 car start and shorter race each day noone liked. So many did not want to return if it was the same compressed format with that many cars. sure if I had an excess of money I would gladly go run down there even without points. But as I am just now trying to settle my racing budget for next year it looks like I will likely run all the points races before I consider heading off to a race just because.