Fire Suits

[spdmonkey]

Now we are getting somewhere.

If the TPP is an acknowledged measure of performance (and it is), why the additional specs? Who really cares about epaulets?
[/b]

just an FYI...the epaulets were put in the FIA 2000 standard as a requirement for open wheel racing. In theory they are used by safety workers to pull the driver out of the car when he/she is unable. They were not required on the 1986 FIA standard. It has nothing to do with protection of the driver only for evacuation.

db

[Quickshoe]

Gregg,

I understand your concerns about a standard including both performance and design parameters. I think this is a little different than other SFI and FIA design standards

I can't seem to access the FIA standards currently but I did know that "back when" the type of closure was specified in the FIA spec while some SFI suits had plastic closures. Or flammable material next to the zippers with a nomex flap over the zipper. I also know that SFI suits were permitted to have short collars and leg cuffs that were above the ankle (hidden) with the pant leg drooping down over the cuff....they were commonly referred to as NASCAR cuffs.

In this case, because of the coverage issues I am thankful that the FIA standard is stricter about the area of coverage. What I do wish is they offered suits that offered protection closer to the SFI 3.2A/10 level....a two-tiered performance standard if you will.

[jjjanos]

It has nothing to do with protection of the driver only for evacuation. [/b]

Shouldn't they be in the crotch and butt then?

[spdmonkey]

Shouldn't they be in the crotch and butt then?
[/b]

Nah that would be for elimination...

db

[vr6guy]

so once again, Ill buy A $99 SFI CHEAPO 3.2a/1 suit and simply wear it over my 3 layer omp 1986 spec suit..... challenge me, you will be in for a debate of your life... At the annual tech inspection ill be the one wearing a clown suit. literally a clown suit with the red nose and everything. Maybe I can learn to jugle by then! suddenly I hear carnival music in the background

[gsbaker]

just an FYI...the epaulets were put in the FIA 2000 standard as a requirement for open wheel racing. In theory they are used by safety workers to pull the driver out of the car...[/b]

I figured it would be something like that.

[gsbaker]

Gregg,

I understand your concerns about a standard including both performance and design parameters. I think this is a little different than other SFI and FIA design standards...[/b]

Different perhaps, but it has the common problem of someone taking a proven performance criteria applicable to all racers, applying design tweaks that they think might help their particular racing series, and negatively affecting everyone who was using a perfectly safe product.

[RSTPerformance]

Just got off the ITAC call. CRB members are convinced 100% that this is a mistake. Goal was to clean up the wording (remove all specific approved materials for underwear etc). It was NOT to change the spec in any way.

We are on it.
[/b]

I have been away... Or busy I should say. Lots of good reading since I last left off. Andy do you have any updates? Have you talked to anyone further? I never recieved an e-mail back so I am very much wondering where we stand.

Thanks again;

Raymond

[Bob Roth]

In all this discussion, I haven't seen an explaination of why 1986 FIA suits have been dumped. Can somebody address that? I am writing a letter to CRB asking that this be considered an error or omission.

There seems to be knowledgeable people on this string. If there is a reason that SCCA believes that a 6 year old FIA 1986 rated suit is worse than a SFI 3.2A/5 suit. Lets here it.

thanks
bob

[JS154]

Hi gang,

I actually race with BMW CCA - considering moving over to SCCA for ITR (E30 M3)

BMW CCA Club Racing has the same wording regarding fire suits.

Just for more info, here's a link I found on a British motorsports forum with a little extra info regarding FIA 1986 vs FIA 2000

http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/archive/in...hp/t-70370.html


Eric Heinrich
BMW CCA Club Racing
J-Stock #10
GULF E30 M3

[Bob Roth]

I liked this quote;

"Part of the "2000" standard is manditory epilets - so I think you may be right - the fireproof material may not be different at all. I can imagine my fancy "1986" standard suit would actually pass the "2000" test but as it isn't labelled as such, I've got to buy a new one for International races "


Doesn't sound like there's a difference other then epilets, and of course my OMP suite has epilets. Does anybody know how long SFI 3.2 has been around?

[vr6guy]

Any news????

[Dave Ebersole]

Still no news? I guess I'm looking at a new suit to replace my perfectly good OMP FIA 1986 suit. What's another $800 - 1000 dollar expenditure, right?

[vr6guy]

someone stop the carnival.... im gonna wear the 3.2/1, my omp, and my undies... wait a minute thats 5 layers!! that cant be safe :026:

[RacerBill]

someone stop the carnival.... im gonna wear the 3.2/1, my omp, and my undies... wait a minute thats 5 layers!! that cant be safe :026:
[/b]

Probably look like Randy in 'The Christmas Story'!

[Joe Craven]

I believe that one of the items that SFI seems to be specifying in their standards is an expiration from the original date of manufacture.

In regards to seat belts, NASA has gone with SFI's 2 year expiration date (SCCA with a modified 2+ year date) and FIA with a 5 year date. For now, I only will buy FIA certified seat belts and now it won't surprise me to see if there will be an expiration date for unused firesuits.

Joe Craven

[vr6guy]

so FIA seatbelts have a longer eligibilty time period than the sfi ones..... but my fathers suit from the 80's is still legal according to the ruleset. All the while my 2001 Fia suit is not legal, even know its 3 layers, box quilted, nomex and has a burn transfer rate of 19 seconds?! DOes anyone comprehend? Ill have to get a ferris wheel installed for a steering wheel in order to steer my car with all those layers on...... wake up scca

[Dave Ebersole]

It would seem SCCA is more interested in promoting the welfare of sfi than it's racers.

[Knestis]

SFI is more concerned with promoting the interests of its members - and therefore its own.

K

[Joe Craven]

I believe the NASA suit requirements are nearly identical to the SCCA requirements, I'll alert them to this thread so they can look into the 1986 FIA issue. NASA has required SFI or FIA compliance for race suits as long as I've known, never have known of an issue where someone bought one that wasn't certified. They are definitely more strict in regards to enforcement of the SFI seat belt expiration which is 2 years from the date of certification which definitely pisses me off. However, since FIA certifies for 5 years and NASA accepts FIA certification , that solves my problem and I purchase the usually more expensive belts that meet the FIA specs.

Now, anyone know what the written FIA/SFI specs for suits are....I am interested to see what the expiration date for their certification date is if they exist. You know, these manufacturers need to sell more suits, even if the ones we buy sit in someones air conditioned and heated closet for many years.