Fire Suits

[vr6guy]

I have never heard of a suit having an "epiration date". Thats where the owner of the suit has to make a good judgement on the condition of the suit they wear. Also abviously the tech inspector. If you saw my suit you would think it came directly from the factory. Maybe they should modify all tracks like the ones at big amusement parks. Ya know go carts that have the middle track in the middle to keep you on course? SO that way we cant crash, or catch on fire, so we can just wear shorts and a t-shirt....... Sports car business of america.... I want the "CLUB" back

The funny thing about contacting anyone at Topeka, they simply cant, and wont explain about this rule change. Even had one person,(that i will leave nameless) said he didnt know what I was talking about!?

word for this upcoming year in the scca..... "contumacious"

[Quickshoe]

SFI 3.2A/10 and higher rated suits expire no more than 4 years after date of manufacture.

[Knestis]

Suits done expire but SFI approvals might. I really hate this whole issue.

K

[Dave Burchfield]

The way to remove SFI from the whole mix is to only buy safety equipment that is FIA approved. Might be a few more dollars on the front end, but over the life of the equipment, it could be much less expensive. Belts are a perfect example. I will be certain to communicate with any vendor that I buy from that I have no interest in SFI approval and will only buy FIA approved, and if they have nothing that fits my needs, sorry.

Is my thinking flawed here?

[Quickshoe]

It certainly wouldn't hurt Dave. Unfortunately the drag racers, roundy-round and desert guys have lots of SFI required equipment and their numbers are larger than ours.

[vr6guy]

Suits done expire but SFI approvals might. I really hate this whole issue.

K
[/b]

Im right there with ya on that one!!

scca is acting like a 15 year old boy who climbs into bed with anything that hikes up their skirt,(SFI).

[Bob Roth]

From what I learned SFI-5 requires a TPP of 19 per the following table

SFI
Rating TPP Time to 2nd degree burn

3.2A/1 6 3.0 Sec.
3.2A/3 14 7.0 Sec.
3.2A/5 19 9.5 Sec.
3.2A/10 38 19.0 Sec.
3.2A/15 60 30.0 Sec.
32A/20 80 40.0 Sec.


In addition look at this site. http://www.spectorracing.com/custome...s.php?pageid=4

I don't know who did the testing but the conclusion is that for the same suit with a two layer fabric like my quilted fabric OMP 2001 FIA 1986, you can test it either SFI, FIA 1986 or FIA 2000 standards and regardless of the testing method the result is well over a TPP of 19 which is what SCCA will accept as a minimum when they require SFI 3.2/5.

This is what I have thought all along, the FIA testing standards changed but the fire protection of the suits that SCCA has always accepted did not change. The only other thing was FIA 2000 requires Epilets which my suit has. So, if a 2001 FIA 1986 suit is equivalent if not superior to SFI 3.2/5 suits, why is SCCA saying that they are not acceptible? I will bet 40% of the two layer suits that went through tech last year were FIA 1986. Speaking for the guys who are looking at spending $700 for replacing a suit that we have used maybe 20 times since new, we are still waiting for an explanation......

[Joe Harlan]

http://www.scca.com/documents/Club%20Rules...provedbyBoD.pdf


The issue has a temporary resolution.

[Dave Zaslow]

Dear BOD,



I note that you have elected not to change the driving suit rule for 2008, but have elected to revise the rule for 2009. As published the rule will be:



Effective 1/1/09: change section 9.3.19.A as follows:

Driving suits that effectively cover the body from the neck to the ankles and wrists,

<strike>manufactured of fire resistant material, worn with underwear of a fire resistant material.</strike>

One piece suits are highly recommended. All suits shall bear an SFI 3.2A/1 or higher

certification label or FIA 8856-2000 homologation. <strike>and underwear shall be made of the

following accepted fire resistant materials: Nomex, Kynol, FPT, IWS (wool), Fiberglass,

Firewear™, Durette, Fypro, PBI, Kevlar, NASAFIL, or any suit carrying an SFI 3-2A/1 or

higher certification patch. Underwear of PROBAN is approved. The following specific

manufacturer(s) material combinations are also recognized: Simpson Heat Shield, Leston

Super Protex, FPT Linea Sport, Carbon X, and Durette X-400. </strike> Underwear of fire resistant

material shall be used except <strike>Underwear is not required </strike> with <strike>three-layer suits or with </strike> suits

carrying FIA standards <strike>of 8856-1986 </strike> or 8856-2000 or SFI 3-2A/5 or higher (e.g., /10, /15,

/20) Certification Patch. <strike>FIA homologated driving suits and underwear are recommended.</strike>



I thank you for deferring this change but would like to note the following two items:



1. The sentence that states "Underwear of fire resistant material shall be used except with suits carrying FIA standards 8856-2000 or SFI 3-2A/5 or higher (e.g., /10, /15,/20) Certification Patch." precludes wearing fire resistant underwear. Is this really your intent? If I see a driver wearing underwear and a suit rated higher than SFI 3/2A/1 may I ask the grid workers to make them strip off the underwear before being let out onto the track?



2. As the previous FIA 1986 spec is, at the very least, functionally equivalent to SFI 3.2A/5, why will those suits no longer be allowed?



Yours,



Dave Zaslow

189195

[lateapex911]

Good letter, Dave

[Joe Craven]

I just looked up the 2008 NASA CCR up on the NASA website

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf under 15.17.1

Here is the text

15.17.1 Driving Suits
A driver is required to wear a suit that covers his or her entire body except for hands,
feet, and head. Driving suits shall be one piece carrying an SFI 3.2A/1 rating or higher
(3.2A/5, 3.2A/10, 3.2A/15, or 3.2A/20) or FIA 8856-2000, FIA NORME 1986/1986, or FIA
8856-1986.

It looks like FIA suits are good to go at NASA events for the foreseeable future. From the above SCCA update, they are good for 2008 SCCA events too.

Thanks everyone.

[vr6guy]

http://www.scca.com/documents/Club%20Rules...provedbyBoD.pdf
The issue has a temporary resolution.
[/b]

this resolution should not be temporary!! Ill just wear my fathers suit from the 80&#39;s, after all it has an all mighty "sfi" patch......... this whole subject is a joke..... off to nasa

[JIgou]

So in a year when my suit is officially deemed "junk" I can choose to spend $700 on a new suit and stay with SCCA or spend $700 on a new H&N restraint to replace my Isaac and race with NASA.

Meanwhile, both of the items I currently own provide levels of protection beyond the minimum required by the specifications for such items for each sanctioning body.

*sigh*

Letter asking for explanation sent.

Jarrod

[RSTPerformance]

Jarrod;

I couldn&#39;t agree more with your fustrations on this topic... This entire issue has caused me to loose interest in racing and think about getting a boat next year. We need to keep the sport at our level affordable and fun. I think that SCCA is trying to take Regional/National racing to a more "pro level" wich in some cases is great and will certainly attract some racers but I think that it will loose more than it will gain...

Raymond

[lateapex911]

Raymond, i don&#39;t think that&#39;s the intent at all. You&#39;re seeing black helicopters, man!

50 years ago, they were racing in what we considered "skull buckets". Things have come a long way. The club needs to balance the risk side with the fun side.

Sometimes, they trip over themselves in that process.....But it&#39;s not about ousting the "little guy".

Small circle tracks operate in different environments, and have different rules, accordingly. Our club is a large organization, with a lot to lose.

That said, i am all for common sense being used in these decisions. Write your BoD person with a well researched and well reasoned letter, and you will be heard.

[ScotMac]

Raymond, i don&#39;t think that&#39;s the intent at all. You&#39;re seeing black helicopters, man!

50 years ago, they were racing in what we considered "skull buckets". Things have come a long way. The club needs to balance the risk side with the fun side.

Sometimes, they trip over themselves in that process.....But it&#39;s not about ousting the "little guy".

Small circle tracks operate in different environments, and have different rules, accordingly. Our club is a large organization, with a lot to lose.

That said, i am all for common sense being used in these decisions. Write your BoD person with a well researched and well reasoned letter, and you will be heard.
[/b]

Right. Let&#39;s get off the "SCCA is going down the drain", "SCCA is in bed w/ SFI", "NASA here i come", ..., band wagon. They made a mistake, which they recognized, have fixed for 2008, and are (probably) in the process of fixing permanently.

EDIT: I see they have gone back to the original (no FIA 1986) wording for 09...ok, go back to regularly scheduled bashing. Geez.

[spdmonkey]

What has me a bit puzzled is that according to the minutes of the CRB meeting, my letter was the only one submitted on the 1986 FIA standard. Does anybody really read Fastrack anymore? Is it because its not in Sportscar? I sent my original letter to both the CRB and BoD within minutes of the original posting in Fastrack over the summer. I&#39;m hopeful that after all these posts in this and the other few threads here that people are writing to the SCCA as well as posting. All the online chatter mean absolutely nothing to the SCCA. The only stuff on the record is what doesn&#39;t get lost after it hits the SCCA mailroom... and a lot of it does get lost. Please write the letters whether it effects you or not as next time it just might be your bottom line thats changing. I&#39;m happy for the one year, but we need to get this changed for a longer period of time. There is nothing the SCCA can say to me that makes me believe a single layer suit with an SFI tag is better than my triple and double layer FIA suits. Nothing!

Dave Brown

Write the letters to the CRB!!!

[RSTPerformance]

Looks like we have been given a 2nd chance to give our input, lets be sure to send our letters of support to get this rule changed back to something more realistic! I know I send one before, but I am giong to do it again!!!

June Fastrack News is requesting your input... E-Mail [email protected] and support one of the newest proposed rules that allow FIA 8856/1986 driver suites.

Raymond

[dickita15]

While this proposal is a lot more reasonable that what was proposed last year in that it allows either an SFI suit or the two latest FIA specs, I still have to wonder if a certification is needed. There are drivers using suits with no certification and I question if there has been problem because of that.

[spdmonkey]

While this proposal is a lot more reasonable that what was proposed last year in that it allows either an SFI suit or the two latest FIA specs, I still have to wonder if a certification is needed. There are drivers using suits with no certification and I question if there has been problem because of that.

Not sure exactly what you mean. The FIA suits are certified. The "issue" is there is no expiration on suits. Just like SFI maybe? I ended up buying a new FIA suit anyways as the hassle was not worth it. I will still write more letters in support as in the hot summer its nice to have a couple suits so you are not jumping into a hot stinky suit that never dries in the humidity. YMMV.