Front susupension stayrod

[keycom]

"5. Cars may add one (1) front stayrod, located in one of the
following areas:
A. Between lower suspensions mounting points.
B. Between the upper strut towers on Mac-Pherson strut
equipped cars.
C. Between upper front shock absorber mounts on cars
with other forms of suspension."

So if I already have a "K-bar" in the lower subframe area, I cannot also put in an upper front strut bar between the strut towers, correct?

[joeg]

No. You already have one (1).

[RacerBill]

The use of the term 'k-bar' piques my interest. The shop manual for the Shelby Dodges refer to the sub-frame that the front suspension arms attach to as a 'k frame'. Is that the same as a 'k-bar' or is the 'k-bar' an additional piece seperate from the subframe?

Thanks.

[keycom]

Here's a pic of the VW K-bar.

[lateapex911]

What do all those points attach to????

[keycom]

This is closer to what I am currently using:

The second option for the Mk1 is a four-point connection, which mounts to the front and rear of the control arms. This bar has two cross sections that connect the front to the rear, thus giving maximum stability. Legal for SCCA IMPROVED TOURING class. Our lower stress bars are designed to fit cars with manual transmissions only. Finished in gloss black powder coat.

[Gary L]

Oh, my... the rule says one (1) stayrod can be used. I count at least 4 stayrods (plural) in that last photo.

Additionally, the glossary defines a stayrod as:

"My interpretation of what&#39;s in the photo? It&#39;s a whole cottonpickin&#39; system of bars and rods, not the singular bar or rod as described and defined. It&#39;s a friggin&#39; subframe! Yes, I see the Eurosport claim that this is SCCA IT legal. But on the same webpage, just below the picture above, is a rear suspension "stress bar" that they claim is IT legal. So much for their credibility. Maybe I&#39;ve overlooked it, but I don&#39;t see anything in the ITCS that allows a rear stayrod or similar... it is only allowed at the front, correct?</span>

[ddewhurst]

Dam, I would like to get into this legality discussion except that real quick the moderators will show up & then it don&#39;t mean shit how anyone else understands the rules. Lower control arm Spherical bearing here we come again........................

[shwah]

The first picture is a stock VW part from the 16v Scirocco. Unfortunately it does not meet the IT rules. We are limited to two attachment points. EDIT - I could see an argument supporting this one, as the rear connection points attach to the same structural member that you reinforce by simply mounting a 2 point bar between the control arm mounting points (where the front attachment points of that bar are).

The 2nd picture is an aftermarket part that is even further outside the rules.

And yes - you are only allowed one such item on the car - EDIT bottom rear, bottom front, top front - take your pick. With the A1 VW the bottom front is definitely the right one to take advantage of.

[tom_sprecher]

Dam, I would like to get into this legality discussion except that real quick the moderators will show up & then it don&#39;t mean shit how anyone else understands the rules. [/b]

Not me. You guys can discuss ad nauseam the legality or lack thereof of his "stayrod". Honestly I think most of us feel as long as there is no attempt to sell drugs or porn and everyone remains civil and avoids questioning one&#39;s IQ, the marital status of the parents at one&#39;s birth or making suggestions involving one&#39;s anatomy that are physically impossible, we say have at it.

[Joe Craven]

What would happen to an A1 if it raced w/o a front stayrod between the front suspension mounting points? Would it flex excessively, slowing lap times? Eventually crack from fatigue?

[shwah]

Yes and yes.

[jimbbski]

The stayrod pictured first is from a 16V Scriocco and is a factory part so shouldn&#39;t it be legal on a Mk II 16V Scriocco raced in ITA, even though it has 4 mounting points?

Reading the rule posted at the beginning of this discussion says we can "add" 1 stayrod. It didn&#39;t say you could only have one. Discuss!

[shwah]

The stayrod pictured first is from a 16V Scriocco and is a factory part so shouldn&#39;t it be legal on a Mk II 16V Scriocco raced in ITA, even though it has 4 mounting points?
[/b]

absolutely

[lateapex911]

Did it come on the car as delivered from the factory? if so, all is fine. If not, no joy.

[shwah]

Jake,

My answer considered the legality of the part on a 16v Scirocco. Absolutely.

[Tristan Smith]

So if a car comes with a factory strut tower bar, like many cars are manufactured with these days, can someone add a lower brace? I don&#39;t have the rules in front of me, but does it state that one upper or one lower brace CAN be added, or that you can have ONLY one or the other. Thanks

[JeffYoung]

Tristan, add to me means add. You can add one to whatever you have stock. If it is zero stock, that means you get one. If you have one stock, that means you get two.

[Bill Miller]

The first picture is a stock VW part from the 16v Scirocco. Unfortunately it does not meet the IT rules. We are limited to two attachment points. EDIT - I could see an argument supporting this one, as the rear connection points attach to the same structural member that you reinforce by simply mounting a 2 point bar between the control arm mounting points (where the front attachment points of that bar are).

The 2nd picture is an aftermarket part that is even further outside the rules.

And yes - you are only allowed one such item on the car - EDIT bottom rear, bottom front, top front - take your pick. With the A1 VW the bottom front is definitely the right one to take advantage of.
[/b]

Chris,

Not sure how the &#39;X&#39; bar is further outside the rules. The rule says &#39;between the lower suspension mounting points&#39;. There is a front and a rear lower mounting point, on each side. Also, I think you can make the case, that since it&#39;s all welded together, it is a single stay rod. You could certainly bend one out of a single piece, and weld the mounting tabs to it.

I agree, the Scirocco 16v one is out, because it mounts to points other than the &#39;lower suspension mounting points&#39;, but I think the &#39;X&#39; bar meets the letter of the rule.

[shwah]

I never thought about it that way. It is at least arguable. Is stayrod restricted to two points?