ITR Contenders

[benspeed]

Ahhh yes - now that my stocker has been classified in GT1 where the money wars are pretty scary I'd really have to be on the crack to run 2 race cars. BUT WHAT THE HECK - I can't do any of the motor work on the GT1 car myself, I gotta have an IT project in the garage to fiddle with. ....it is a long enough winter in NJ.

No waffling though - the GT1 ride will remain in the stable. I just want more horses to ride.

On the competitiveness question - lots of good remarks. I wasn't surprised that there are no takers on the pony cars. The bimmers are the smart drivers choice - known ability - that seems to have won hands down.

I'm still looking for the Z32 in my area - this is the profile - slick top, 75K miles, unmolested, $5K. Figure another $10K and you've got a front runner that will unfortunately burn through brakes. Can't believe how many of these have been pimped out and ruined.


S2000 - try to find a decent platform for under $10K - I can't. Haven't seen a single built car for sale but I bet they'd be over $20K. Really good points on this cars weaknesses.

[lateapex911]

Now, i know you've spent more money this week than I have in a year, so you have a good handle on what things cost..( )...but $10K for a full on ITR build?


ROUGH quick guesses:

Wheels and tires, (min 2 sets wheels) $2500
Suspension $3000
Cage $1500
Seat belts, etc $1000
Misc engine stuff (better radiator, accusump, etc, etc $1000
Brakes Prop valve, plumbing, calipers and rotors and pads. $$700
Gears: $500?
Basic stuff (bearings bushings, etc) $1000
Engine: header, intake, etc, etc, etc, $7000 ?

And some of those numbers are a bit low, but I can see the build running much closer to $20K. Plus the donor...

[benspeed]

Now THAT is laying down some coin. I wouldn't go for that aggressive of a build project - the budget you have would certainly make the car outstanding. Since I already have a race car track ready I'd be buying this to cruise in while building and also make a judgement decision on the potential of the car.

If I remember correctly, didn't a team from NH or MA have 240ZX and 300ZX running at NHIS? I'd like to hear from anybody who ran a 300ZX. And the Porsches - will they beat the BMWs?

[Z3_GoCar]

Ahhh yes - now that my stocker has been classified in GT1 where the money wars are pretty scary I'd really have to be on the crack to run 2 race cars. BUT WHAT THE HECK - I can't do any of the motor work on the GT1 car myself, I gotta have an IT project in the garage to fiddle with. ....it is a long enough winter in NJ.

No waffling though - the GT1 ride will remain in the stable. I just want more horses to ride.

On the competitiveness question - lots of good remarks. I wasn't surprised that there are no takers on the pony cars. The bimmers are the smart drivers choice - known ability - that seems to have won hands down.

I'm still looking for the Z32 in my area - this is the profile - slick top, 75K miles, unmolested, $5K. Figure another $10K and you've got a front runner that will unfortunately burn through brakes. Can't believe how many of these have been pimped out and ruined.
S2000 - try to find a decent platform for under $10K - I can't. Haven't seen a single built car for sale but I bet they'd be over $20K. Really good points on this cars weaknesses.
[/b]

Hey Ben,

Having just run this exercise, I'd recomend the F-body pair. Sure it's got a solid rear axle, but it's close to the same weight as the 328, there's lots to choose from, and you can get real four corner coil-overs instead of just on the front. In my mind the real unknown is the hp gain from the motor, but it's a full liter of displacement larger than the 328 so it'll have a great launch out of the corners. In reallity it'll probably just make a 15% gain instead of the s-2000's break even or even loss. Out here it'd be a hard to beat package.

On a side note, I'm curious why you don't run in Super-Production? That's where all our former Southwest Tour/ASA type cars run. We even used to have a Ford Ranger pickup run in SP.

James

[benspeed]

I did OK in SPO this year but didn't really race anybody. It was more of running for overall postition in the big bore race. I have succesfully lobbied to get this car classed in GT - unfortunately GT1 instead of GT2. So I will run for the NARRC GT1 title next year and try out some national events, but will really need to improve power and aero for any shot at top 3 in a stock car against brand new Rocketsports Corvettes and Trans Am cars.

[erlrich]

Having just run this exercise, I'd recomend the F-body pair. Sure it's got a solid rear axle, but it's close to the same weight as the 328, there's lots to choose from, and you can get real four corner coil-overs instead of just on the front. In my mind the real unknown is the hp gain from the motor...
[/b]

I would love to some day build a Camaro for ITR, but until I see one already built that makes min weight that's not gonna happen. I know there is a lot of crap to remove, but 700 lbs worth? Also, I know the perception is that there's tons of aftermarket support for these cars, but the go-fast goodies are all made for the V-8s; there really isn't that must out there for the 6.

[JeffYoung]

Fastest two ITR cars that I saw this year were Grafton Robertson's Porsche 944S2 and Rick Thompson's BMW Z3 2.8. At the Goblins Go at VIR in the fall, they ran similar times.

$20k for an ITR car, especially a Porsche and especially a front runner, ain't gonna happen (read Jake's post about the cost of a Milledge motor). Same is true of a Z32. Sure, you can get on track for $10k, but up front? In a new car that you have to develop? $30-40k at least.

I'm telling you, that Fiero and that torque would have been a lot of fun. THe handling could be fixed.

[benspeed]

Tell me Mr. I'm now in ITA Wouldn't your Triumph absolutely crush my Fiero? No way that Fiero was winning anything. But it would be the ultimate first lap car - great start and great out corner power. But I tell ya, it would be out RPM'd on any track over 100 mph. The Honda and Rx7 guys know - let me pull you 8 lengths on the top end, you can work like a slave to make it back in the corners.

I am a horsepower fan.

[lateapex911]

Tell me Mr. I'm now in ITA [/b]

You're kidding right? Triumph TR6 is in A, the 8 is still in S, where it will stay....

[Ron Earp]

You're kidding right? Triumph TR6 is in A, the 8 is still in S, where it will stay....
[/b]

I laughed til my sides hurt when I saw the TR6 was in A. Have any of you actually driven around in one of these? Jeff Y drives one about daily now (don't ask why) and I've driven it too. Good luck!!

Ron

[lateapex911]

You know the phrase when it comes to race cars; buy for power, then fix the handling.

The triumph has big displacement! And lots of cylinders!

[dj10]

Fastest two ITR cars that I saw this year were Grafton Robertson's Porsche 944S2 and Rick Thompson's BMW Z3 2.8. At the Goblins Go at VIR in the fall, they ran similar times.

$20k for an ITR car, especially a Porsche and especially a front runner, ain't gonna happen (read Jake's post about the cost of a Milledge motor). Same is true of a Z32. Sure, you can get on track for $10k, but up front? In a new car that you have to develop? $30-40k at least.

I'm telling you, that Fiero and that torque would have been a lot of fun. THe handling could be fixed. [/b]

Jeff,

Grafton Robertson is he any relation to Taylor Robertson?

[GKR_17]

Fastest two ITR cars that I saw this year were Grafton Robertson's Porsche 944S2 and Rick Thompson's BMW Z3 2.8. At the Goblins Go at VIR in the fall, they ran similar times.

[/b]

Actually, that's my dad's car... he just lets me drive it when I can make it back east. Last year when we were looking at R, I said no torsion bars, no transaxles, and no 4 cylinders. But, we did have experience on the chassis from a previous ITS 944 so here we are...

I laughed til my sides hurt when I saw the TR6 was in A. [/b]

It's funny you say that... the TR6 was one of the first ITA cars I saw, back in 1990, I hadn't realized it wasn't still on the books.

Grafton

[benspeed]

You're kidding right? Triumph TR6 is in A, the 8 is still in S, where it will stay....
[/b]

Hups - I jumped to the conclusion the S Triumph was moved to A. My oversight. I thought that was one major rule change play.......And I was giving Jeff credit for some serious rules meistering.

[lateapex911]

LOL, Jeff's good, and he was on the ITR commitee, but nobody is THAT good! (Heck, the ITAC chairman has an ITA car, he might have some "input" LOL...)

Now, if it fit the process, then that would be another story...

[Dave Burchfield]

Don't forget, there is a TR6 that runs in EP and sometimes GT3 that is usually at the pointy end of the Runoffs every year. The car has been around for almost as long at Tom Patton's Tiger.

If that TR6 engine has any where near the torque that my big Healey has, it should be a killer torque monster. I am pretty certain the suspension is better on the Triumph than my Healey and would be interested to know if the lever shocks would be required to be retained in ITA trim. Without question, an interesting challenge.

[Ron Earp]

No where near an IT build.

http://www.hottr6.com/triumph/tr6dyno.html

Stock motor, header, no smog stuff. 91hp, 123 ft-lbs on a Dynojet.

[JeffYoung]

We are off topic, but:

1. Jake, run the numbers on a 133 hp, front discs/rear drums, live rear axle car....A car! LOL....the 8 is not an A car, I would be adamantly opposed to dropping it to A. In fact, it is a perfect "answer" to those who think that subjectivitiy should be left out of the process. If it had with my car, and the fact that it has ridiculous torque and gains way more hp than most cars in IT trim were ignored, well, you'd have a big 8 cylinder problem in ITA.

2. The TR6 in ITA.....NO WAY. It's light, yes, but that motor will not rev and will not make power without changes to the valvetrain and the cam. Not sure on the lever arms -- tube shocks would be allowed I suppose if you didn't have to change suspension points. I'd have to look ant see if the tube shock conversions do that or mount to the stock locations.

I just can't see that car making nearly the power necessary to run with 150 whp cars that are up front in A right now. Plus, it would be a BITCH to develop that thing. Unlike the TR8, where there has actually been some IT development by the guys who raced this car over the years, the 6 has been developed solely for production racing and all of the easy, already done mods are for cams, brakes, etc. Things you can't change in IT.

[rob22]

Ben, if your Monte Carlo stocker is a FI LS1 doesn't your car fit in GTA, or does your region not have the class? Come south sometime and run with us in V8 StockCar. We will be at VIR in may.


Bosco

ex Kurt Roehrig Monte Carlo GTA

[benspeed]

Yo Bosco - seen you on the V8 site.

Yup - my car is a straight up GTA car and the only one running in the Northeast. I ran SPO last year since GTA isn't a regional class up here. I plan to come down to VIR in the spring and run GTA with you guys if I don't do any motor work to try and run with GT1. Not much chance of being real competitive in GT1 but we are light and if I can get the motor to make 600 at the crank I'd be curious to see what it can do.

Sorta looking around to see if the car has any chance of being put in GT2 where it would be competitive nationally, but I don't think it'll happen. You think there is any chance of GTA going national?

GTA is an awesome class but these yankees in the NE seem to turn up their noses at the stockers.

Ben