ITR Contenders

[Gregg]

WDCR (the MARRS series) will be running GTA for the '08 season. Come on down....

[philstireservice]

And to add even more.....


There is a rumour that NASA will be unveiling a Spec E36 class for 2008.........

[JeffYoung]

Phil, will that be based on BMWCCA Spec E36 rules?

[mlytle]

Phil, will that be based on BMWCCA Spec E36 rules?
[/b]

no unfortunately. nasa has chosen to come up with thier own, incompatible, set of e36 rules.

[JeffYoung]

That's just stupid. Almost SCCA like.

[lateapex911]

LOL...NASA has shown recently that they feel they are a big fish with moves like this.

[77ITA]

After putting quite a great deal of thought into it (and considering my realistic budget), I would go with the V6 Mustang for ITR.

The cars are everywhere and can be had cheap, performance parts from any Jegs catalog, and good reliability. Overall, an affordable and (theoretical) good choice.

If budget and time were no issue, Z32 n/a 300zx without a doubt. These are stellar automobiles that have huge power potential in IT form and they are becoming available for pennies on the dollar. The downside would be service and part failure.

I'm a Nissan parts guy, so I can tell you with great confidence that the physical complexity and number of parts present on a z32 could easily triple that of an ITA Neon. The cars are insanely over-engineered, ridiculous to work on, and pricey for repairs. Oh, and every repair instruction listed in the service manual starts with:

Step 1; remove complete exhaust system
Step 2; remove transmission
step 3; remove upper and lower intake manifold

Seriously!

As for the S2000, It's book weight is a bit high and I concur about the specific output. There's just not going to be a lot of power left to squeeze out of it. I also seem to remember that the hardtops are pretty pricey too.

Side note:

What does everyone thing about the future of ITR? I've yet to get interested in building a car for the class because the entries in the midwest haven't really picked up. I just don't think I would have fun playing by myself

[Mike Guenther]

After 8 years of racing, starting in ITA, then IT-7 and 3 years in ITS, I finally won my first race ever in an awesome ITR BMW 325is I bought this summer. I loved my RX7's and they were fun to drive. I tried a BMW E30 a few years ago and liked it too. But this E36 BMW 325is is just an awesome handling car and has a lot more power coming out of the corners than my RX7's ever had.

Unfortunately some expenses at home are forcing me to part with this awesome car. It was professionally built and has everything. I need to work up an ad and put it on the classified page in the next few days.

Thinking about ITR in 2008? Look for my BMW 325 for sale soon and get one awesome car for about half the cost of building one today. You might win the ITR Championship in 2008.

For pics.... fastflames (at) tampabay (dot) rr (dot) commmm....

I'll be back...................

[Ron Earp]

After putting quite a great deal of thought into it (and considering my realistic budget), I would go with the V6 Mustang for ITR.

The cars are everywhere and can be had cheap, performance parts from any Jegs catalog, and good reliability. Overall, an affordable and (theoretical) good choice.
[/b]

No doubt there. As a Ford guy I know the parts are out there for nothing. Sway bars, panhard rods, coil overs, - everything off the shelf, good quality, just buy it for a fraction of BMW/Nissan/Porsche components. Engines, transmissions, rear ends and so forth are nearly free and the stuff won't break.

If the motor will make some power then the car could be pretty good. I don't know much about that V6 in the Mustang, but it has decent size and will at least make good torque.

Wouldn't mind giving a V6 car a drive to check it out.

Ron

[benspeed]

I like the Ford also for the low investment and a very lightweight ITR car. Found several really nice platforms for only $2500 range.

Tell me if this logic makes sense. Regional AS cars are only a hair faster than ITS cars. And they are running V8s with a couple hundred pounds more. It just makes me think that even a bit lighter, these V6 pony cars wouldn't be able to run with an ITS car.

Make sense?

[JeffYoung]

There were some on the ITR committee who agreed with you, and believed that the V8 ponys (the early ones with 305/302 motors) should be classed in R. Others were fearful of their torque potential, brake issues, handling issues, etc. In fact, all V8 ITR candidates (the ponys and the 928) were voted out.

I believed, and continue to believe, that these cars (the V8 ponys) would be great for the class, and would give Mustang and Camaro guys a much cheaper place to run. These cars would be down on total hp to some of the best ITR cars, although up on torque. I've been there, with the TR8, and know that huge torque is great, but it's just one of many factors that makes a car fast. I actually think a race between a V8 pony and a torqueless wonder like an S2000 would be fun and quite a bit like me v. the RX7.

There was a thought that the V8 ponys would come in in the "second wave" of classing for ITR, but I honestly have not had the time or the energy to start that effort yet, other than to take a first stab at an RX8 proposal. THAT is a car that I think absolutely must be put in R ASAP. Lots of Mazda guys want to run that car in R, and we should accomodate that as the car fits the class nicely -- about 230 crank hp, low on torque, good handling and brakes.

[77ITA]

In fact, all V8 ITR candidates (the ponys and the 928) were voted out.[/b]

I'm literally drooling here at the thought of a 928 IT race car.

It's a good thing they've not been classified though... Despite how utterly awesome it would be, a 928 race car has grounds to be a huge financial blunder.


On a side note, it's hard to see an urgent need to class v8 pony cars in IT considering they're classed in both Touring and AS. I'm sure in time (as the cars age), the need will become more apparent and they will get worked in somewhere.

[Ron Earp]

other than to take a first stab at an RX8 proposal. THAT is a car that I think absolutely must be put in R ASAP. Lots of Mazda guys want to run that car in R, and we should accomodate that as the car fits the class nicely -- about 230 crank hp, low on torque, good handling and brakes.
[/b]

I really feel the V8 pony cars should be in the class ASAP. They'd get huge draw as evidenced by initial feelers over a year ago. I'd race one regardless of how good it'd be in R - I like Fords, I like Mustangs, and the V8 is indestructible for the racing we'll be doing. Might not be a winner but it'd be fun. Lots of AS fellows felt the same when I asked at the time. AS won't have the competition that IT will have and the cost factor can be less.

Ron

[Ron Earp]

As far as the ITR Mustang goes….

*ITR Mustang Weighs 2670, 60 lbs more than a TR8….
*Has 3.8L V6 versus TR8 3.5 V8, both 2 valve push rod motors....
*Has rear suspension about like like a TR8….
*Has fairly poor aero like a TR8….
*Has strut front suspension about like a TR8….

I bet it goes around the track about like a TR8!

[benspeed]

I'm sorta narrowing it down to the 300ZX or the 968 - neither fits into the inexpensive beater to fool around with. (The winner on that list was the Mustang.)

So of these 2 rides - which is the winner? Which is less expensive to build and race? Parts and Support?

[JeffYoung]

Ron and I looked hard at both before deciding to stick with our S cars for a while.

300ZX -- plentiful (except for slicktops), cheap, some aftermarket support, gobs of power and torque. Negatives -- hard to work on, some aftermarket support but not a lot, potentially inadequate brakes. Heavy.

Porsche 968 -- rare, expensive, great aftermarket support, M3 like power, good torque. Great balance and handling. Weight is a bit of an issue. Body panel availability is an issue.

After a lot of looking and thinking, we concluded that a 944S2 is probably the best bet at this early stage in ITR history. It's quite a bit lighter than the 968, shares body panels with the 944 (some anyway), decent power, great handling, great brakes.

If you ask me though, someone is going to spend $75k building a whup azz 4th Gen Supra that no one will be able to beat. Good inline six, great power and torque, good brakes, great aero, can be made to handle.

[77ITA]

I bet it goes around the track about like a TR8![/b]

albeit with fewer parts falling off

[buldogge]

Hey Jeff... Not to be a shit stirrer...but...remind me again why the E36 M3 and E36/8/7 MCoupe/Roadster aren't included...???

There are an AWFUL lot of E36 M3 track cars out there which could possibly transition to racing and strengthen the ITR ranks.

???

Ron and I looked hard at both before deciding to stick with our S cars for a while.

300ZX -- plentiful (except for slicktops), cheap, some aftermarket support, gobs of power and torque. Negatives -- hard to work on, some aftermarket support but not a lot, potentially inadequate brakes. Heavy.

Porsche 968 -- rare, expensive, great aftermarket support, M3 like power, good torque. Great balance and handling. Weight is a bit of an issue. Body panel availability is an issue.

After a lot of looking and thinking, we concluded that a 944S2 is probably the best bet at this early stage in ITR history. It's quite a bit lighter than the 968, shares body panels with the 944 (some anyway), decent power, great handling, great brakes.

If you ask me though, someone is going to spend $75k building a whup azz 4th Gen Supra that no one will be able to beat. Good inline six, great power and torque, good brakes, great aero, can be made to handle.
[/b]

[Andy Bettencourt]

Hey Jeff... Not to be a shit stirrer...but...remind me again why the E36 M3 and E36/8/7 MCoupe/Roadster aren't included...???

There are an AWFUL lot of E36 M3 track cars out there which could possibly transition to racing and strengthen the ITR ranks.

???


[/b]

Mark,

When we ran those cars through the process, it was determined that the weight in ITR would be too heavy for anyone to seriously consider building one. 3500lbs IIRC. It was a car that we REALLY wanted to get in there for the exact reasons you cite, it just seems as if it will have to wait for the 'next gen' of IT...ITX?

Many people consider the 300ZX a porky choice at 3250...and that has 18 less hp to start with.

[rob22]

For: Benspeed

Ben, your stocker will classify in our V8 GTA as is, if you modify up over the 500 hp level, it would move to our V8 SPO. This would be stockcars running on 15x10 wheels, blade spoilers and most of these have 600 plus hp. Some are 18 degree Busch east motors, some are cup SB2.2, also legal would be upgraded LS1. LS6 etc. carbed or FI. Katech racing has some pretting exciting new carbed LS2 motors that could be monsters and not that unreasonably priced.

Bosco