2008 MARRS Schedule

[grjones1]

Now that we've begun the off-season and we're not working on the cars and most participants are caught up in the Mazda thing on another forum, should we take a survey of MARRS participants as to whether or not we should have found a way to go to VIR with MARRS next year?

I'm still of a mind that the majority of us would have preferred to have raced there under the MARRS banner, and we were pretty much ignored for dubious reasons. Shall we stir the pot?

[Cobrar05]

Ignored by whom?

[grjones1]

The people who make up the schedule.

[grjones1]

Looks like I was the only one dissatisfied.

[Gregg]

Or perhaps you are the only one who feels like you were ignored. We presented three options on scheduling to the membership at our Open Competition Committee meeting at MARRS 7 (August 11th). These options were presented after previously gaining feedback from drivers (via their driver reps), discussing various invitations from other regions, and in the case of Mother's Day event at VIR, after the issues we had with the '07 event were discussed and presented to NCR.

Although I personally don't want to see the MARRS series become the "Summit Point" series I personally have little issue with the '08 MARRS schedule. The "slop" we have built into it gives me the opportunity to attend a number of events that were previously off-limits due to conflicts. If you want to spend Mother's day at VIR, you can. If you want to attend the IT-Festival at M.O. in August, you can. If you want to do the Sprints at the Glen, you can.

[grjones1]

We presented three options on scheduling to the membership at our Open Competition Committee meeting at MARRS 7 (August 11th). These options were presented after previously gaining feedback from drivers (via their driver reps), discussing various invitations from other regions, and in the case of Mother's Day event at VIR, after the issues we had with the '07 event were discussed and presented to NCR.

The options were presented. I know I spoke at that meeting. Was a poll taken? (I know, as I said at the meeting, 169 MARRS drivers went to VIR Mother's Day last year and that in itself was a pretty good indicator.) Again what was the result of the opinions carried by the Drivers' Reps. I know I never heard the count. In fact I never received a sheet to indicate my preference. All I know is that the Comp Board made some arbitrary decision that people did not want to race on Mother's Day at VIR which was proven untrue by the fact that we did race on Mother's Day at VIR - 169 of us.. And none of your "opportunities" put us in a MARRS context.

What we got was the "appearance" that we were given a choice. No real proof that our choice was followed.

Please explain all this.

[Gregg]

I'm not going to battle this out with you G. Robert, but I think you might have missed the following:

Originally posted by Me
...and in the case of Mother's Day event at VIR, after the issues we had with the '07 event were discussed and presented to NCR.

Just because there were 169 drivers from the MARRS series does not mean that 169 region members came away pleased. Just something to think about.

Was every MARRS participant asked about their feelings re: VIR? Or did you just want those who attended the '07 event to be polled?

Nope.

And we didn't have one for Nelson or the Glen or any of the other tracks and regions we've raced with previously. Nor do I think one is necessary.

As rep for my class I am constantly talking with my drivers, getting the pulse of those I represent. I don't think I ever need to take a separate number count of each of my drivers as I have a good feeling as to where most stand, and I'm sure the other reps have a similar report w/ their fellow drivers. I have been asked by my fellow ITA (and previously IT7) drivers to represent them on the Competition Committee. In doing so they trust that I will act in their best interest. If you don't feel the same way about your rep, you can step up and volunteer your services to your fellow drivers.

Finally, as mentioned previously, if you want to race at VIR over Mothers day, load up the trailer and give the SARRC guys some hell. You can do that, G. Robert. Nobody's gonna stop you.

[grjones1]

Gregg,

I don't mean this as a personal attack, but you are sounding like a Northern Virginia bureaucrat. You are obvuscating the issue with a discussion of Driver Rep relationships. (It may be known, mine are not in good condition.)

I think it's pretty straightforward, of those drivers and workers who attend MARRS races, how many want to got to VIR on Mother's Day next year? Anybody can accomplish that survey.

The issue is how many people actually wanted to race at VIR with MARRS? Where's the count? How many wanted to and how many didn't. I know quantitatively 169 went to VIR (40 some less than that went to Nelson) on Mother's Day that is the only objective evidence I have to go on. As to how many were satisfied again I only have my "feel" that most were, so so much for "sensing" the majority.

My Rep said theat "everybody was dissatisfied" (or words to that effect). Everybody I talked to had a great time. So why don't we take a count? Not some subjective feel by Drivers' Reps on what they "think" people want to do. Smells of oligarchy to me.

And as far as my becoming a rep: because I race a Fiesta, my car is not always ready and I miss races and i feel the rep should always be in attendance not to mention the fact that the majority of my class race Hondas and they tend to hang together.

[Gregg]

Well, for every person you spoke to that had a wonderful time, I can name just as many who did not like the format of the event, the pairings, the number of cars/group, how they were treated by event officials (whether they be drivers or volunteers), or how much they paid for the perceived quality of the track time.

No event is run perfectly and we presented some ideas that we felt would be beneficial to our region's members going forward. Since we couldn't come to agreement on those, it won't be a MARRS event this year.

As for your excuses for not volunteering your services to your class, I'll let them stand with just one comment.

Originally posted by grjones1
And as far as my becoming a rep: because I race a Fiesta, my car is not always ready and I miss races and i feel the rep should always be in attendance not to mention the fact that the majority of my class race Hondas and they tend to hang together.

After having my car destroyed at the last MARRS race of '06, I didn't have a car to race until hours before the Labor Day Double. That didn't keep my fellow racers from placing their trust and interests in my care for the rest of the season and it certainly didn't preclude me from working on their behalf (and even showing up for events sans race car).

So what's your excuse again?

[dave parker]

Robert
Relax.
The schedule is the schedule, and it is too late to change it now. Rather than brow-beating Ginsberg(no matter how fun it can be) you should probably chat with Gayle Lorenz our Regional Executive.
I think that would be more enlightening for you as to how the region makes decisions like this.

Be aware that my standard answer to people that complain about how the DC Region does things is to ask, "What volunteer position are you going to fill to make the changes you want happen?"

I also realize everytime I go away to race how good it is to race at home with my own region. Not that other regions don't do it right, its just different.


cheers
dave parker

[grjones1]

Why do I always end up defending myself on these things. Guys I've been in the WDC Region on and off since 1971. I have stacked tires, swept and bucket-brigaded rainwater, and worked flag stations at Summit and VIR, and even driver-instructed a few times, all before most of you were old enough to ride a bicycle. I have introduced myriads of people to our sport and crewed for a number of drivers in addition to driving. Please don't suggest to me I need to learn how to volunteer.

Again you are deflecting the issue.

I too ran afoul of NCR officialdom (I was called in for metal-to-metal that didn't happen, refused participation for belts that were 6-weeks out of date, and yelled at for parking in somebody's "reserved" parking place) and got it all worked out to everyone's satisfaction. (Imagine that!) And I still love the place and most of the people I encounter there.

In the case of next year's schedule I am convinced that a few people got upset with NCR officials and decided we (WDCR) wouldn't go back regardless of what the majority of others wanted. And until somebody proves to me that was not the case I will remain dissatisfied and suspect of our leadership. And yes I will trailer up and head back there, MARRS or no MARRS, and I'll probably wind up missing a MARRS event elsewhere because of it.

And Dave I spoke to Gayle by e-mail on this and I've waited for 2 weeks for a response - none has appeared.

Go play your fiddles somewhere else.

[Gregg]

I'm not dancing around or deflecting anything. Just pointing out how...umm...lame your excuse sounds.

Unfortunately, you choose not to believe me (and I presume don't believe what your own rep told you). I'm sorry to hear that you are so distrustful of the motives of all of the other drivers reps and worker chiefs and feel that the majority do not have the best interests of those they represent at heart.

[lateapex911]

Gregg,

I don't mean this as a personal attack, but you are sounding like a Northern Virginia bureaucrat. . [/b]

Nope, nobody would take that as an attack! Hee hee...I almost spit my drink in my keyboard when I read that, and I don't even know what a Northern Va burea-whatever is!

[grjones1]

"Unfortunately, you choose not to believe me (and I presume don't believe what your own rep told you). I'm sorry to hear that you are so distrustful of the motives of all of the other drivers reps and worker chiefs and feel that the majority do not have the best interests of those they represent at heart."...Ginsberg

Another Northern Virginia bureaucratic trick: attributing your own words to somebody else to attack their position. I don't know most of the other Reps, how could I distrust them. How exactly did they vote? I still haven't heard. I would say from your methods I would not lean towards trusting you.

As a matter of fact the individual who represented our class at the Comp meeting (substituting for our absent Rep) was in favor of returning to VIR.

What the heck does my volunteerism have to do with the issue??! The decision for MARRS not to race at VIR next year regardless of the possibility that a majority of active participants may have preferred it all happened because I didn't become a Driver's Rep? What the heck kind of sence does that make?!

That's what I mean by obvuscation and deflection: don't answer the questions; create some other insignificant issue to hide the problem. That's exactly what happened at the open meetng at MARRS 7: show concern for membersship preferences then don't even take a vote. Do it the way you had already decided.

My apologies to Gayle, I was not aware she had been ill.

And Jake I was wondering how long it would take for you to chime in. I said he "sounded like"; I didnt say he was. That's not personal. (Email me, I'll define Northern VA bureaucrat for you - start with "liberal...") What's your take on racing at VIR without any personal repartee?

[spnkzss]

To add fuel to the fire. I would like to return to VIR in 2009. :P

I just hope it's with MARRS. I want a chance to catch Gregg there

[dj10]

Although I personally don't want to see the MARRS series become the "Summit Point" series I personally have little issue with the '08 MARRS schedule. [/b]

I'm sorry to see that the Marrs series has become just that, a"Summit Point Series" There is just to many great SE/ NE/ Central tracks to race. I can't imagine sending my whole race season at 1 track....but I bet you'll be good at it.

[erlrich]

Wow - so MARRS goes from having two away weekends to one (for the first time since when?), and suddenly it's a one-track series? Ok, if you say so. Hell, I was as bummed out as anyone to hear we were loosing the VIR date, but once our driver's rep (whose only responsibility is to ITA drivers BTW) explained it to us I better understood why the decision was made. And I guess the fact that they tried to find other dates with another region at both VIR and Charlotte means nothing?

All I can say is if you guys feel that the majority of the MARRS drivers were happy with the way things went at VIR this year (even thought only 30% of the drivers even went) then by all means take up a petition, start up a poll, whatever, just do something other than coming on a website and bitching about it.

[Cobrar05]

I dont understand what the beef is/was with the two day double at VIR. All of the doubles that I have run in either SCCA or NASA have been two day doubles sometimes with an open test day.

I will be at VIR regardless and I am not a MARRS competitor. I just liked the experience as it was and wonder what the problem was.

[grjones1]

... then by all means take up a petition, start up a poll, whatever, just do something other than coming on a website and bitching about it.
[/b]

I believe my original intention was to "take a poll "(re: "survey"). What better place than a website?

[Gregg]

I can't imagine sending my whole race season at 1 track....but I bet you'll be good at it.
[/b]

Don't assume I don't or won't leave my backyard. Actually, the MARRS series will be travelling to another track in '08...just not VIR. And while I consider myself to be a decent driver at SPR, I'd like to think that I'm no slouch at some of the other tracks around the country. Our schedule this year will more easily allow me to return to those tracks than in past years. Heck, I might even see you race at Road Atlanta for the second year in a row.

It should be noted, Dan, that you didn't go to VIR with us last year, you may have gone to Nelson but never started, and you were at Summit twice in '07. You did not run enough races to qualify for a MARRS championship in ITR '07. I don't think '06 was any different. This tells me that even if the MARRS series went to more than one away race in '08 there's a good chance you wouldn't be there anyhow.

So, G. Robert, should we be polling--

• all DC Region members?
• all DC Region drivers?
• all DC Region volunteers and drivers?
• all MARRS competitors?
• all MARRS competitors that have raced at VIR previously?
• or all MARRS competitors who put in enough races to qualify for a MARRS championship?

As Earl alluded to, and I had discussed with the drivers I represent, the region had made attempts prior to October to attend a VIR event with another region in '08. That didn't work out. So here we are. Hopefully G. Robert can find a statistically representative sample for his poll here on the Intrerwebs.