Remote Shifter

[RFloyd]

"knobs are free" and their method of attachment to the shift lever is also free, as long as said shift lever is unmodified other than the allowed bend (I'm presuming that with the "free" allowance one could use racer's tape or gorilla glue to attach the shifter if one was so inclined )....

But I'm having difficulty figuring out where the ITC states that the knob may be attached to the floor or transmission tunnel, other than via the lever.

IIDSYCTYC

The trick setup on this Mustang is a better, more precise way of accomplishing exactly what the allowed bend to the shift lever was meant to accomplish - put the business end of the shifter in a more easily manipulated position for the driver while maintaining the factory part, as opposed to allowing an aftermarket part and the resulting spillage of the contents of pandora's box....

Not only does this shifter not fir the wording of the rule, it has defiled and murdered the spirit of the rule...

just my opinion, of course.

[ddewhurst]

***EDIT - besides, precedent (particularly from another category) has no weight.***

K, they are turning you over just like a pan cake to be cooked on both sides. (Is this what happens when someones car wins the ARRC ? < uncalled for but....) The driver can&#39;t sit in the back seat in a Production
car which has a bunch looser rules than IT but you can sit in the back seat of an IT car. K, ya lost your common sense? < Please note the question mark.

In the past IT people steped into a larger pond to do the looser items with SCCA race cars now some people want to drag stuff from the larger pond into the small pool while pretending they are in the larger pond.

Gary, has his total common sense factor in place.

Have Fun
David

[RFloyd]

K, they are turning you over just like a pan cake to be cooked on both sides. (Is this what happens when someones car wins the ARRC ? < uncalled for but....)
David
[/b]

I think Dr K, as el Rushbo would say, is illustrating absurdity with absurdity.

[GKR_17]

Nope, the sit is with in 1 or 2 inches of stock. The Mustang has a poor at best shifter design. The shifter is basicly under the dash. O&#39;well I guess I will build the car&#39;s for NASA. Now I remember why I quit IT after one year back in 1996.

Cheyne
[/b]

Now I certainly don&#39;t think much of any car with a blue oval on the front, but I find it very hard to believe that they actually sell cars where the driver can&#39;t reach the shifter.

[shwah]

Now I remember why I quit IT after one year back in 1996.

Cheyne
[/b]

I honestly don&#39;t mean this with any malicious intent, but maybe that was a good decision. As you have since noted, there may be other places to play that fit your impression of what a race car should be better than Improved Touring.

[Knestis]

I spent close to 2 decades defending a "common sense" conservative interpretation, and what I understood the Founding Fathers&#39; intentions of the IT rules to be, but sort of set that quest free a year or so ago - hence the white flag avatar.

The trend since the Great Re-alignment has been toward more liberal interpretations, supported by an influx of newer folks in the category (without benefit of historical perspective), some sketchy interpretations by National staff members (legislating from the bench, as it were), and the influence of new technologies. Yeah, I&#39;ll still squawk about competition adjustments (bleah!) but creep? Whatever y&#39;all are good with.

We haven&#39;t committed the three or four creepers on the Golf that we&#39;ve come up with (well, maybe not any of the big ones, anyway) mostly because we&#39;ve been working on the basics. But if something isn&#39;t done in the next year or so, you&#39;re going to discover that Kirk and Cameron might get bored and start looking for new tricks.

And DD - there&#39;s not a dog-gone thing that prevents the driver&#39;s seat of an IT car from being behind the B pillar - as long as each of the allowances required to make it happen are allowed by the rules. The point is that none of the allowances - as written and as enforced - should LET THAT HAPPEN.

K

[Cheyne]

I honestly don&#39;t mean this with any malicious intent, but maybe that was a good decision. As you have since noted, there may be other places to play that fit your impression of what a race car should be better than Improved Touring.
[/b]

Nope I wouldn&#39;t take the wrong way. I had thought ITR would be a neat project and since we own several V6 Mustang&#39;s and after building a WCGT/NASA AIX Mustang I know how to fix the shortcomings, but to fix several of the problem areas would require pretty creative interatation of the rules or having the SCCA allow the Mustang several allowances. O&#39;well no skin off my back as no money has been spent.

Cheyne

[shwah]

Well whatever you end up running - maybe we will see you out at the track sometime.

[JGreen]

And you guys wonder why the GCR keeps getting thicker and thicker. Its because everyone tries to circumvent the rules for their "special case". If the GCR doesn&#39;t say you can do it then don&#39;t..

[Bill Miller]

What don&#39;t you agree with Bill?
[/b]

What&#39;s &#39;obvious&#39; to you may not be &#39;obvious&#39; to someone else.

[Andy Bettencourt]

What&#39;s &#39;obvious&#39; to you may not be &#39;obvious&#39; to someone else. [/b]

Well in this case Bill, we all KNOW what a shift knob is.

[ddewhurst]

***What&#39;s &#39;obvious&#39; to you may not be &#39;obvious&#39; to someone else.***

***Well in this case Bill, we all KNOW what a shift knob is.***

Come on Bill we all know that the rounded protuberance that attaches to the long narrow object is called a KNOB. < No pun intended.

Play Time
David

[esuvee]

But I&#39;m having difficulty figuring out where the ITC states that the knob may be attached to the floor or transmission tunnel, other than via the lever.
[/b]

Bingo, I was wondering how this got so derailed and was hoping somebody had brought this up. My first thought when I glanced at those pics was "illegal, it attaches to the tunnel."

As for rules &#39;crosstalk&#39; (e.g. steering wheel) that&#39;s BS. An allowance or &#39;understanding&#39; for the steering wheel has absolutely 0 to do with the shifter.

Even if you wanted to imply that this type of crosstalk did exist between similar rules I would say that these are dissimilar rules. If a steering wheel hub has to be cobbled up to be legal per the letter of the rules some people will still do it and pose a significant safety risk to everyone if their steering wheel falls off. Here it makes sense to allow some more purpose built parts. However if they find them selves holding their knob (stop to giggle) it&#39;s their own problem and not a significant one.

Off topic, Mustangs must have been designed by chimps. In my mustang days I had to push the lever into 5th with the tips of my first two fingers if I was harnessed in, I&#39;m 6&#39;2". The stick/knob/lever part above the stubby thing I would call the lever is already &#39;bent&#39; significantly from the factory so if your body is the wrong geometry you really are pretty screwed.

Alex MacDonald

[Greg Amy]

My first thought when I glanced at those pics was "illegal, it attaches to the tunnel."[/b]

Alex, take a moment to read my "How to Write a Rule" thread.

Problem with your logic is that it&#39;s not taking into account what the rule actually says.

Point 1 - Rules say IIDSYCTYC. Right?
Point 2 - Rules say (in so many words) shift knobs are free.
Point 3 - Absent any other limitations,...shift knobs are free.
Point 4 - The George Roffe rule: "If it says you can, you bloody well can!"

Since shift knobs are free, show me where it cannot be mounted to the tunnel, assuming no mods are made to the tunnel to accommodate it (because the rules decisively do not allow mods to the tunnel). Or the roof. Or the tail light. - GA

[Renaultfool]

Hmmmmmm, If I remove my shift knob I can still shift my car. If he removes his "shift knob" he can&#39;t.

[CaptainWho]

Hmmmmmm, If I remove my shift knob I can still shift my car. If he removes his "shift knob" he can&#39;t.
[/b]

Sure he can. The same way you would if your shift knob was removed. Grab the lever and push/pull. I had a &#39;99 Mustang GT with a very similar shift lever arrangement. Only a stub comes up from the tunnel. The stub has two holes in it. The knob is screwed onto another stub lever, also with two holes in it. The two stub axles are assembled together using the two holes, two nuts, two bolts, and one "rubber" bushing that goes between the two stub levers. The bolts run through one stub, the bushing, the other stub, and a nut. Sure, it takes more effort to shift with only the up-through-the-tunnel stub in place, but it&#39;s very doable. I know, I&#39;ve done it. And I wouldn&#39;t want to do it on track or on the street.

[Z3_GoCar]

.....
Off topic, Mustangs must have been designed by chimps. In my mustang days I had to push the lever into 5th with the tips of my first two fingers if I was harnessed in, I&#39;m 6&#39;2". The stick/knob/lever part above the stubby thing I would call the lever is already &#39;bent&#39; significantly from the factory so if your body is the wrong geometry you really are pretty screwed.

Alex MacDonald
[/b]

I think this is the perfect place for a spec line exception, worded something like this:

"Because this car is designed by chimps :P , a cantilever shift mechanism may be added. Its base shall be bolted to the top of the transmission tunnel and connected to the two bolt holes on the shifter stub shaft. The shift rod must extend 6 inches above the transmission tunnel and the bottom of the shift knob must be at least 5 1/2 inches above the transmission tunnel"


James

[Andy Bettencourt]

Sure he can. The same way you would if your shift knob was removed. Grab the lever and push/pull. I had a &#39;99 Mustang GT with a very similar shift lever arrangement. Only a stub comes up from the tunnel. The stub has two holes in it. The knob is screwed onto another stub lever, also with two holes in it. The two stub axles are assembled together using the two holes, two nuts, two bolts, and one "rubber" bushing that goes between the two stub levers. The bolts run through one stub, the bushing, the other stub, and a nut. Sure, it takes more effort to shift with only the up-through-the-tunnel stub in place, but it&#39;s very doable. I know, I&#39;ve done it. And I wouldn&#39;t want to do it on track or on the street. [/b]

So this car has two shift levers. BOTH of which must remain stock except for the allowed bending. Whatever you want to attach to THEM is fair game...this example has eliminated (or modified) the intermediary unit.

[Bill Miller]

So this car has two shift levers. BOTH of which must remain stock except for the allowed bending. Whatever you want to attach to THEM is fair game...this example has eliminated (or modified) the intermediary unit.
[/b]

Which would make the above example legal, tunnel attachment and all, provided no part of the original shift lever were removed or modified (short of bending). I think that&#39;s the point Greg is trying to make.

BTW, where the hell is George? Is he still even on the ITAC?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Which would make the above example legal, tunnel attachment and all, provided no part of the original shift lever were removed or modified (short of bending). I think that&#39;s the point Greg is trying to make.

BTW, where the hell is George? Is he still even on the ITAC?
[/b]

Except I would bet a bundle that the intermediate lever is modifed in some way.

George is just too smart to come on here.