Remote Shifter

[Cheyne]

I'm getting ready to build a Mustang for ITR and I have a question about the shifter. I have read that short shift are illegal, but you can bend and change the shift knob. When I built my WCGT Mustang I had to put in a remote shifter so I could reach 3rd and 5th gear. The unit would be something like this unit:



or

http://www.mustangsplus.com/tech/speedshifter/

Cheyne Daggett

[spnkzss]

9.1.3.9.b states Any shift knob may be used, but:

9.1.3.4.e states: Shift Lever may be bent above runnel or floor.

I don't think you can modify, you can jsut bend it.

TIFWIW

[Greg Amy]

Hoo-boy, the new "spherical-bearings-and-welding-the-steering-columns-for-quick-release rulez nerd" in me sez that's one helluva NIFTY "shift knob" right thar, son...barring someone finding a more-distinct definition of "shift knob" in the GCR...

Remember, it's a whole new paradigm now...and George sez "If it says you can, you bloody well can..."

- GA

[Cheyne]

Acutally the pictures is from my WCGT Mustang that I built in 2005.

Cheyne

[spnkzss]

Hoo-boy, the new "spherical-bearings-and-welding-the-steering-columns-for-quick-release rulez nerd" in me sez that's one helluva NIFTY "shift knob" right thar, son...barring someone finding a more-distinct definition of "shift knob" in the GCR...

Remember, it's a whole new paradigm now...and George sez "If it says you can, you bloody well can..."

- GA
[/b]

[Andy Bettencourt]

I suggest the know is the tip that is removable, the lever is the shaft. That picture looks like a modified shaft, not knob. No?

[Greg Amy]

That picture looks like a modified shaft, not knob. No?[/b]

You know this could get fun...or really nasty...let's keep it civil.

Two points:
- *IF* the shaft is in fact modified, "what if" the part that attaches to the shaft does so without modifying it? For example, what if it screws into the top (assuming a stock knob screws in). Further, let's assume the "remote" part screws into existing holes/threads without modification to any other part.

- Regardless, how does modifying the lever shaft to install a "knob" differ in any way from modifying a steering shaft to install a "steering wheel"?

[JeffYoung]

I'm part of the new wave. Shaft is there still, this is a knob. Knobs are free. That's a helluva a mousetrap knob, but looks technically legal and I wouldn't protest anyway.

Related question: dude can't heel and toe his car so he has an "auxiliary" throttle lever on the gearshift? Pedals are free right? But this is not a pedal....

[Andy Bettencourt]

Help the dumb kid. The knob screws onto the shaft. The shaft is clearly not stock. The stock shaft may only be bent. Please explain to me how that could be legal. If that shaft is modified in ANY WAY beyond being bent...whick it clearly is. Extra pivot point to allow the horiziontal plane, modified top to accept 'custom' knob...sorry boys.

[JeffYoung]

No, I promise, I'm dumber. Or maybe just blind.

I see a shaft bent parallel to the tranny tunnel. That's legal.

I then see a big old knob on top. That's legal.

Am I missing something? (and it is quite likely that I am). Is it the pivot point that is the illegality?

[Ed Funk]

:P If it was attached by a chain, would GA yank it?

[Greg Amy]

Andy, your brain is stuck firmly inside the box...we're talking the forest here, you're looking at one tree.

Forget the specifics of the picture above, keep in mind only the concept. Here's "the dumb kid" explanation (though I know you're a smart guy):

We unscrew the knob. We screw onto the shaft a piece of aluminum that's about 18" long with a bend about 1/3 of the way. The longer part extends about a foot backwards and hangs in the air.

Shift knobs are free. So is this extension. Let's go further.

I really don't like having that lever hanging out in the breeze so I'm going to attach a vertical support on it; the bottom of that support will rest on the trans tunnel.

Shift knobs are free. So is this vertical post, as it's part of the knob. Let's go further.

I decide I want that vertical post to pivot on the end of the extension, well because I want to. And I'm going to attach the bottom side of that vertical pivoting post to the trans tunnel using existing holes and/or threaded inserts in the trans so I'm not modifying any part to install it (and fasteners are free). And, I'm going to put a swivel on the end of the part that screws onto the shift knob, too, cause I want to.

Shifts knobs are free. Nothing past the "any shift knob may be used" further limits what I can do. So, it's legal.

Remember the discussion about writing rules? About when something's "free" it's "free"? Point One: as long as that design attaches where a shift knob would normally attach, it's allowed. I can attach and elephant ear on that thing if I want to, the rules specifically allow that.

OK, so that aside, let's address your comment about "If that shaft is modified in ANY WAY beyond being bent...which it clearly is...[it's illegal]." I disagree with you on this point, also, simply by current and traditional interpretation of the rules.

For example, show me where modifying the factory steering column in order to install a steering wheel - including welding, cutting, shaping, and or drilling - is legal to the Improved Touring regulations? It's not. Yet, we've "agreed", traditionally, that modifying a stock part in order to install a legally-installed part (e.g., welding on a steering column adapter to install a steering wheel) is in fact legal. Note that the shift lever rule does NOT state 'the only modification allowed to the stock shift lever is bending it', it states that bending is allowed. And, if you revert back to IIDSYCYC claiming that you cannot modify the shift lever, then you also have to also agree that modifying a stock steering shaft to install a quick-release is also legal...

Point Two, since a steering column can we welded on and/or drilled in order to install a legally-allowed replacement steering wheel, then welding, drilling, and or modifying the stock shift lever in order to install a legally-allowed shift knob is also legal.

As I've said many times in the past, rules mean things, and when things are allows in one place, they are allowed in other unintended places.

I am fully of the mindset that while the system indicated above is not within the original intent of the rules, it's absolutely freakin' allowed within today's letter of the rules...and if it can be designed without modifying the stock shifter shaft - which is CLEARLY can be - then it's a slam-dunk. - GA

:P If it was attached by a chain, would GA yank it? :happy204:
[/b]

Ooooh, you're mean.... :)

[Ed Funk]

:026: Good yank!

[Andy Bettencourt]

So if I stand on this platform, do I see the forrest?

- The shaft MAY NOT be modified other than bent as per the rules. That means the lower attachment points and that means the upper attachment points - including the OEM threads and thread pattern. BEND it all you want - but THAT IS IT.

- I have a bolt-on steering wheel adapter hub that requires no modification to the steering shaft and consider modifying said shaft illegal per the rules.

I submit you are doing exactly what you compained the "SB as bushings" did. You are taking a commonly accepted 'legal' mod (modifying steering shaft to accomodate a legal wheel change) - that is not per the written rule, and using it as your platform for this judgement. I say no to both.

IF you don't modify the OEM shaft in ANY way other than bending it, and you can come up with a config like this, then I say you are ok, but I don't see the above picture like that at all.

[Greg Amy]

I submit you are doing exactly what you complained the "SB as bushings" did. You are taking a commonly accepted 'legal' mod (modifying steering shaft to accommodate a legal wheel change) - that is not per the written rule, and using it as your platform for this judgment. I say no to both.[/b]

And, it should come as no surprise, I agree with you, Andy: you're absolutely right. You probably noticed by now I'm using this as an example to illustrate how "allowing" such mindsets in one area will have effects on other areas.

IF you don't modify the OEM shaft in ANY way other than bending it, and you can come up with a config like this, then I say you are ok, but I don't see the above picture like that at all.[/b]

Again, I agree. Yet I can EASILY design something that attaches to the stock unmodified shift knob threads (or clamps around the lever itself) that replicates exactly what the above photo does, especially given it appears to be self-contained on a single plate of steel, and attaches to the trans/exhaust tunnel using existing holes/inserts.

At another chain-yanker, also keep in mind that the rule allows "any" shift knob, but does not use the word "replace" or replacement" as the steering wheel rule does. Ergo, there is very little - if anything - to restrict the location and/or method of attachment of said "knob"...

[RSTPerformance]

Just when I thought Greg, Andy and Kirk had fixed everything a new found challenge has come to light!!! I love it!!!!

Jake - What say you?

Raymond "lol" Blethen

[Cheyne]

I guess the way I have read the rules on the shifter is that you can bend above the tunnel, I'm not going to bend it, and that you can use "any" shift knob. My read is that there are no restrictions on the shift knob, like it must attach to the shift leaver in the stock form. So in the picture I have labled what I would call the shift knob and the leaver.

[ddewhurst]

& when I was on the 1st gen RX-7 lower traction bars kick I was acccused of all sorts of things by THOSE in the KNOW.

to all of you screwing with peoples minds. Hell, we don't need to worry about INTENT of rules with you guys but some might challenge your integrity.

[Andy Bettencourt]

At another chain-yanker, also keep in mind that the rule allows "any" shift knob, but does not use the word "replace" or replacement" as the steering wheel rule does. Ergo, there is very little - if anything - to restrict the location and/or method of attachment of said "knob"... [/b]

This is the excellent and key point. The rule should say 'replace'.

I'm on it.

I guess the way I have read the rules on the shifter is that you can bend above the tunnel, I'm not going to bend it, and that you can use "any" shift knob. My read is that there are no restrictions on the shift knob, like it must attach to the shift leaver in the stock form. So in the picture I have labled what I would call the shift knob and the leaver.

[/b]

Is that green section you have circled the entire stock and unmodified lever that came in the car? Not a chance....

[Cheyne]

This is the excellent and key point. The rule should say 'replace'.

I'm on it.


Is that green section you have circled the entire stock and unmodified lever that came in the car? Not a chance....
[/b]

My interpretation it is. The shift knob was bolted to the shift leaver. Unfortuantly the rule books does not define what a shift knob is and allows for any shift knob to be used. The rules also don't define what the leaver is.

Cheyne