Remote Shifter

[Andy Bettencourt]

My interpretation it is. The shift knob was bolted to the shift leaver. Unfortuantly the rule books does not define what a shift knob is and allows for any shift knob to be used. The rules also don't define what the leaver is.

Cheyne [/b]

I can understand the 'creative nature' of the shift knob wording/allowance but identifying every cars shift lever won't be hard in the tech shed...and the one on an IT car must be stock and unmodified - except for the allowed 'bending'. Need the GCR to define 'bending' as well?

I'm done.

I will go back to my ITCS review where I take every 'you can't' out of there....just 'you cans'.

[GKR_17]

Plenty clever, but not legal. Seems like you need to put the driver's seat back where it is supposed to go, the whole point of this was to improve your weight distribution right?

[Cheyne]

Nope, the sit is with in 1 or 2 inches of stock. The Mustang has a poor at best shifter design. The shifter is basicly under the dash. O'well I guess I will build the car's for NASA. Now I remember why I quit IT after one year back in 1996.

Cheyne

[Greg Amy]

I'll reiterate that I disagree with the above sentiment: I believe the general design is legal. It's the specifics we'd have to hash out...

[Cheyne]

Thanks Greg. Actually it isn't even that cleaver. The piece came straight out of my GT1 Olds Custlass that had a Hewland gear box. I might build the car and would welcome a protest. My only concern would be to win the protest only to have a busy body rewrite the rules.

Cheyne

[spnkzss]

Ok, I have a question. I keep thinking about the shifter concept. In my Honda the shifter is one piece that is solid that goes through the floor. Under the floor there is a rod that goes up to the transmission. Which is what I think Andy has in mind. I know I was stuck on it. With that design, I would agree the current picutre would not be legal.

Now, in my '87 Monte Carlo SS, I converted it to stick. This is rear wheel drive and the shift linkage is internal to the trans. You bolt the shifter into the top of the trans. There is about 2 inches of "shifter" that sits above the trans and comes into the interior of the car. That 2 inch shifter has 2 threaded holes in it that you then attach a shifter lever too. I think that this is what this ITR mustang has going for it. In that case it absolutly is the unmodified shifter he is attaching too and basically shift knobs are free. Wouldn't that be legal?

Some cars have screw on shift knobs, some have bolt on.

[Knestis]

Lurk, lurk. Hee-hee-hee!

K

[Andy Bettencourt]

I'll reiterate that I disagree with the above sentiment: I believe the general design is legal. It's the specifics we'd have to hash out... [/b]

I also agree. I guess I am debating based on what I see in THAT picture and how THAT lever is not an unmodified stock unit with 'just' a bend in it. You could do something similar in certain cars and be legal.

I am requesting the wording be changed to properly reflect the intent, which is obvious.

[spnkzss]

I also agree. I guess I am debating based on what I see in THAT picture and how THAT lever is not an unmodified stock unit with 'just' a bend in it. You could do something similar in certain cars and be legal.

I am requesting the wording be changed to properly reflect the intent, which is obvious.
[/b]

But in THAT picture I think the shifter is unmodified. The shifter is a stub.

[Andy Bettencourt]

But in THAT picture I think the shifter is unmodified. The shifter is a stub. [/b]

I would agree with you ONLY if the OEM knob screwed onto that little stub and there was nothing inbetween when stock. I would be willing to bet that is NOT the case. The OEM shift LEVER has to remain unmodified other than a bend.

[Cheyne]

I would agree with you ONLY if the OEM knob screwed onto that little stub and there was nothing inbetween when stock. I would be willing to bet that is NOT the case. The OEM shift LEVER has to remain unmodified other than a bend.
[/b]

But what is a knob? There is no definition so it is up to each person to define what a knob is. I define the knob to be what bolts to the shift lever and on the Mustang is only 2" long. Since the word ANY is used how would I be wrong.

Cheyne

[JoshS]

This is the excellent and key point. The rule should say 'replace'.

I'm on it.


Is that green section you have circled the entire stock and unmodified lever that came in the car? Not a chance....
[/b]

Andy -- in a Mustang, yes, there's just a little stub that stucks up through the floor. It has two holes in it, to which, a short bent shaft with a knob on top of it bolts.

In other words, there's a lever sticking up, to which another arm is bolted, to which a nice knob is affixed. Is that intermediate shaft part of the shift lever? Or is it part of the knob?

[Andy Bettencourt]

But what is a knob? There is no definition so it is up to each person to define what a knob is. I define the knob to be what bolts to the shift lever and on the Mustang is only 2" long. Since the word ANY is used how would I be wrong.

Cheyne [/b]

So where is the stock 'lever'? You can't eliminate it, you can just bend it. In the example we are looking at, that intermediate lever is either modified or eliminated - both of which is illegal - how do you justify that?

Hey Josh - you said it was a 'lever'......and it is. So........

[Knestis]

Eh. A non-functional full lever could just as easily stick up above that nub, with some kind of collar attached to it.

I'm reminded of the WRC cars that had shift levers that moved by themselves when the drivers used the steering wheel paddles. There was an entire mechanical shifter assembly still there and intact, albeit activated by electro/pneumatic/hydro actuators.

I've got a related question - there used to be a "driver comfort and convenience" clause or some such that we used to justify things like pedal pads but I seem to remember not being able to find it when I went looking last time. I'm late to dinner or I'd dig it out myself but where are we on this front now? Are pedal pads actually allowed? If so, what IS a pedal pad, and can they have linkages?

K

AFTER-DINNER EDIT - "Modifications may be made to the foot pedals to improve the comfort of and control accessibility to the driver." ROCK ON. Hello back seat!

[kbailey]

Wow, I am disturbed at what was interpreted as legal here. It took me a while to realize people were serious......this seems so far out of the intent and wording of the shifter knob rule I have no idea how it caused so much discussion. Cheyne- if the setup was done purely to deal with a crappy shifter position I personally would not protest you, "legal" or not. If if was done to move the driver back and improve the weight distribution then that is something I would consider protesting...this is a slippery slope here.

And as for the bicycle lever throttle on the shifter I don't see any allowance for that one either. I am WDCRegion and have never run against him for points. Everytime I am at VIR I hear people takling about it though.

We all have our opinions- thanks for letting me air mine.......

[Bill Miller]

I am requesting the wording be changed to properly reflect the intent, which is obvious.
[/b]

[Andy Bettencourt]

[/b]

What don't you agree with Bill?

[ddewhurst]

When the GCR glossary has no definition for the words "knob" & or "lever" might we use a Websters dictionary. Or when all else fails (everthing seems to be failing with some peoples common sense ) why don't one of you folks who think a "knob" is a "lever" get the Ford part name for the rounded protuberance that attaches to the long narrow object.


K, don't attempt to do the back seat thing because that has been ruled against when one of our deceased friends did so with a production car.

[Gary L]

Every time I see a thread that even mentions "trick" shifters, I start laughing uncontrollably. Here's a photo of mine. BTW, that's even the stock knob!!!



[attachmentid=1197]

[Knestis]

...K, don't attempt to do the back seat thing because that has been ruled against when one of our deceased friends did so with a production car.
[/b]

Hey, I spent years arguing the intent position on stuff like this but it's the brave, new world of IT. As Greg points out elsewhere, it's about the culture not the rules.

K

EDIT - besides, precedent (particularly from another category) has no weight.