New racer looking for advice on first car

[x1/9racer]

As an owner of an ITC Fiat X1/9, the concept of being able to race reliably for periods of longer than 15 minutes or so with nothing breaking, leaking out, falling off, or catching on fire is alien to me and against everything I stand for or belive in. That being said, save your sanity, get a Honda.

[mlytle]

As an owner of an ITC Fiat X1/9, the concept of being able to race reliably for periods of longer than 15 minutes or so with nothing breaking, leaking out, falling off, or catching on fire is alien to me and against everything I stand for or belive in. That being said, save your sanity, get a Honda.
[/b]

are x1/9's really that bad to race? i used to have a '79 as a street car. loved it and wondered how it would do as a race car. come to think of it, i did spend a bunch of time "maintaining" it....

[thedemoguy]

[quote]save your sanity, get a Honda.[quote]

Get a VW and have reliability and a winning car...

I'm not trying to pop your bobble but a new driver would be better off running in a slower class and work your way up the ladder, it's always better to start at the bottom and work your way up, that way you can concentrate on your driving skills and race craft,..the fact that ITC is a lot cheaper to run then ITA is a big consideration.

If your buy in budget is $5000 your not going to be competitive in ITA, I would suggest ITC, Tires will last a lot longer, a good VW engine will last 2 or 3 years before needing freshened up, and that will only cost about $500.

You need to think about what your racing budget will be for the year,...tires, fuel, transport, entry fees.
Calculate track time verses cost and you'll get a heck of a lot more bang for your buck with the slower class and track time is every thing, the more your on track the better you'll be no matter what class you choose.


And I just happen to know of a nice ITC VW Rabbit for sale...lol
Someone posted that parts are hard to get for a older VW,... Thats not true, you can buy every part for my 82 Rabbit at Euclid foreign motors in Cleveland Ohio, and the bone yards are full of parts like finders and doors, front end parts every thing you would need for a very long time to come,..if the parts ran out there look on the Internet and you'll find an endless supply of re-popes, cheap...

For the money of 2 race weekends with a rental, you can own a very nice VW ITC car.

http://itforum.improvedtouring.com/forums/...showtopic=12647

I also have a nice steel deck open trailer I can sell,...Car, Trailer and some spare parts,...Christmas SALE $5500

[TurboCGT]

The slower classes do make a fair bit more sense when your getting started from a financial standpoint. I have a turn key log booked ITB Audi Coupe GT for sale for a good price on this site if your interested. Excuse the shameless plug if it is out of line in the general forum.

[thedemoguy]

Thats funny, I didn't feel shameless...


Now this is Shameless:
Scott Lane the owner of "Nelson Ledges Road Course" http://www.nelsonledges.com/default.aspx

And
Roland, you know him as Hahn63, the driving force behind the "Kumho Endurance Championship Series" http://www.kumhoecs.com/

These men will attest to the fact that ,

Csaba Bujdoso of "Checkered Motorsports" is one of the best VW builders and set-up man in the country, the cars he built hold track records and win championships on a regular basis, and he set this car up for me last winter, we only ran 2 races with it but it finished 2nd in both of them.

The car is very well sorted and ready to race, I can give you a day of couching "Csaba" and help you get to know the car at Nelson Ledges.

Now that's Shameless.

PS
I won the NEOhio championship with a Checkered Motorsports VW in my first year racing SCCA and 3rd in a local series and only because I mist some races, Csaba cars are fast.

[AjG]

I won the NEOhio championship with a Checkered Motorsports VW in my first year racing SCCA and 3rd in a local series and only because I mist some races, Csaba cars are fast.[/b]

hey, this shamelessness stuff really suits you Bill... I'd say you're a natural!

Unfortunately, I’d have to agree that the VW(or Honda) in ITC as a great way to go…and Csaba does seem to have a certain, um… knack lets call it, for fast VW’s. Sounds like a good deal. I bet you could talk him down to 4000 for the whole package though.
BTW Bill, how much do you want for just the trailer? I assume the VW germs will wash off of it.

[thedemoguy]

Well the trailer is all steel, so if your pinto was to "Burst into Flames" for no go reason it would still be ok...lol

I don't know if you've seen the trailer but it's really nice, it has a winch on the front and hide away ramps that slid into the bottom, back of it and the finders hing up or will come right off if you like so you can get in and out of the car on the trailer.

I would like to sell the trailer and car together and for $5500 thats a great deal...I just had Csaba redo all the suspension on the car and a lot of other stuff,...I have a lot more in the car then what I'm asking, but I'm looking to get a Miata or Spec Ford Racer...

Don't worry, I'll still be racing the ITB Jetta, but it would be nice to race a National class,...I know I can beat all those guys...


[attachmentid=1246]

[arpenn]

What a great racing site. I can't believe all the responses I have gotten on here, you guy's are great! Other sites I have posted on I will get one or two responses and that's it. I really appreciate the responses. I understand what everyone is saying about ITC being a good place to start, but my concern is that I will quickly "out grow" the car and want something faster. I will be running at Hallett the most. The lap times between ITA and ITC at Hallett is 12-14 seconds! There is not that much of a price difference between an ITC and ITA car from what I have seen, unless you go with an integra or miata. I think I can still learn to drive in a ITA car, and be able to race the car for many years without wanting to move up. I have also heard that the car count is much higher in ITA. The honda I am looking at is a proven winner so that will give me something to shoot for, If I can just get him to come down on his price some! I know that an ITA car will be a little harder on tires, but other than that I can't see a whole lot of difference. I respect everyone running ITC, I am affraid that if I buy a ITC car run it for a year or two and then I will have the hassell of selling it and then buying a ITA car. Am I way out of line here in my thinking? Go ahead and flame away!

Thanks again,
Aaron

[gran racing]

If you've found a good ITA car and it's priced reasonably, then buy it. Of course it won't be a good as ITB, but ITA isn't such a bad class. Don't worry about the moving "up" with whichever car / class you decide on. Even in my low hp ITB car, I do a good job of making myself nervous and have plenty of room for improvement. Car counts should play into your decision. I personally don't think it is much fun racing against only one or two other cars. If ITC is very popular, that that could be great. If ITA is popular, maybe you should start there.

[spnkzss]

What a great racing site. I can't believe all the responses I have gotten on here, you guy's are great! Other sites I have posted on I will get one or two responses and that's it. I really appreciate the responses. I understand what everyone is saying about ITC being a good place to start, but my concern is that I will quickly "out grow" the car and want something faster. I will be running at Hallett the most and the lap times between ITA and ITC is 12-14 seconds! There is not that much of a price difference between an ITC and ITA car from what I have seen, unless you go with an integra or miata. I think I can still learn to drive in a ITA car and be able to race the car for many years without wanting to move up. I have also heard that the car count is much higher in ITA. The car honda I am looking at is a proven winner so that will give me something to shoot for! I know that an ITA car will be a little harder on tires, but other than that I can't see a whole lot of difference. I respect everyone running ITC, I just don't want to buy an ITC car run it for a year or two and then have the hassell of selling it and then buying a ITA car. Am I way out of line here in my thinking? Go ahead and flame away!

Thanks again,
Aaron
[/b]

The reason I am leaving C is due to lack of numbers. I want competition, not so much speed. You would be surpirsed how little "speed" is a factor in how much fun you are having. If it was that big of a deal we would all be racing something with more than 100hp.

As far as "race proven", the only word of warning I can give is, it was race proven with that owner with his setup, which he may not leave the exact same setup. Just food for thought.

I have always said ITC is a good place to start. My tune is starting to shift toward ITB would be a good place to start

[arpenn]

The numbers in ITC just don't seem to be as large. I agree that it’s not all about speed but the competition. If the numbers are small the competition will be limited. There are a lot of ITC cars for sale also, but that doesn't mean much. I have read some posts from ITC owners like spnkzss, stating they are changing classes because of the low car counts in ITC.

I also understand that just because the previous owner ran well doesn't mean that I will, but what it does show is that the car is capable.

[thedemoguy]

Aaron

Welcome to the SCCA,... most of the responses are good ones and my ITC opinion is just that an opinion.

I'm new to the SCCA,...just this year, but I'm not new to racing, stock cars in my younger days and karts with my son for the past 6 or 7 years and at the national level for the past 3,...
Racing and racers are all the same no matter where you go,... but I have to say that the SCCA is the most relaxing atmosphere I've had the pleasure to be a part of, we nit-pick on the web about thing from time to time but at the track it's a different story, every one helps each other out no screaming and yelling, just good old fashion racing.

And I'll bet the guys in ITC are having as much fun as the guys in the GT1 cars...but for a lot less money...lol

So welcome and what ever you get ITC/ITA it doesn't matter, just take it slow and safe at first and have fun.
Your about to have the time of your life.

[arpenn]

Aaron

Welcome to the SCCA,... most of the responses are good ones and my ITC opinion is just that an opinion.

I'm new to the SCCA,...just this year, but I'm not new to racing, stock cars in my younger days and karts with my son for the past 6 or 7 years and at the national level for the past 3,...
Racing and racers are all the same no matter where you go,... but I have to say that the SCCA is the most relaxing atmosphere I've had the pleasure to be a part of, we nit-pick on the web about thing from time to time but at the track it's a different story, every one helps each other out no screaming and yelling, just good old fashion racing.

And I'll bet the guys in ITC are having as much fun as the guys in the GT1 cars...but for a lot less money...lol

So welcome and what ever you get ITC/ITA it doesn't matter, just take it slow and safe at first and have fun.
Your about to have the time of your life.
[/b]

I agree that the guy's in ITC have just as much fun as everyone else and I realize that it is probably the cheapest class. I am not bashing ITC at all, I have a great deal of respect for everyone including ITC. I am new to this whole thing and don't claim to know anything. If I offended anyone I truly apologize! I am just trying to figure out what the best route is for me. I agree that ITC is probably the best place to start and learn. I maybe stupid to start in ITA. Maybe I should be looking at ITC or ITB instead. The only thing that really concerns me is the car count in ITC. I will have to check into it some more. And I hope I am in for the time of my life!

[TurboCGT]

I would look at the number of ITC entries in your area last season through results before deciding on the class. I know there are areas where numbers are healthy... but it would be worth making sure you are in one. As for ITB vs. ITA. I would say either will be a great time, going faster costs a bit more in general from what I have seen. I would base your decision on what kind of deals you can find on cars, and how competitive they car your looking at can be in the class. I would rather be in a make and model that can be a front runner in ITB then in a mid to back pack car in ITA or ITS... especially since as a novice I personally am a mid to back of the pack driver! Anyway, hope the search goes well and when you boil it all down you'll have a blast however you get on track.

[arpenn]

I checked the car counts in IT Tour for the Widwest division for 2007. The count came from the final points standings posted on the Midiv website. Here is what I found.

ITA - 31 drivers that raced
ITB - 14 drivers that raced
ITC - 5 drivers that raced

[shwah]

If you have any plans to come North to Cen Div - here are similar numbers from our series (I only say this because I have been down to Mid Div a few times, and it is doable.

# of Drivers that raced
ITA = 21
ITB = 13
ITC = 1

# of Drivers that ran at least 4 events (minimum required starts to compete for season points)
ITA = 4
ITB = 6

EDIT - did a quick calculation of average starters per event, since that is what we are really looking for:
ITA = 6.875
ITB = 6

[arpenn]

See Below

[arpenn]

I looked up the numbers again.

# of drivers that ran at least 4 events
ITA - 3
ITB - 0
ITC - 1

Average starters per event
ITA - Low 5 High 8 Avg. 6.4
ITB - Low 0 High 7 Avg. 2.6 , actually 2.0 if you take out the second Hallet race were they had 7 enter.
ITC - Low 0 High 2 Avg. 1.3

[arpenn]

Well my brother, dad and I decided on ITA, and I got a car bought and its at home in my garage now!!! :026: At the last minute my brother decided he want to be part owner in the car. Its a 1990 Honda Civic Si. I will get some pictures posted soon. We will be making some changes to the car pretty soon. We plan to do a couple of Autox and a couple of trackdays before we start racing. I am sure we will have lots of questions for you guy's. Thanks for all the help this far!

Aaron

[arpenn]

Here are some pictures. We took the headlights out so we could remove the red duct tape that had been on them for years and didn't look to good. My brother is going to recover them with new vinyl. We will also be making some changes to the cage. We are going to replace the front down tube and run them through the dash, add nascar style door bars, run a bar inside the dash from side to side and do some other reinforcing to make the cage safer. We are also going to install urethane bushings, an oil cooler, and paint the car inside and out. It's going to be fun. I will try to post pictures of our progress.