New racer looking for advice on first car

[arpenn]

First let me introduce myself. My name is Aaron and I am a Junior High Shop Teacher and Real Estate Agent in S.W. Missouri. My brother (also a teacher) and myself want to start road racing. It is something both of use have wanted to do all of our lives, just never had the opportunity to do so. We are looking for a race ready car to purchase. I think we have set our sights on ITA. We would like to get some opinions on what type of car is competitive, dependable and economical (if there is such a thing). We have found a Saturn SC2 (very nice car) and a Honda Civic Si that we are interested in, but we don't know which would be the best setup. I realize that there are more Honda's out there and the aftermarket parts and tech support are much greater. I have found very little for the Saturn. My biggest concern about the Saturn is the realiablity of the engine and transmission, compaired to the Honda's. Are there any other cars out there that run up front that we are overlooking. My brother and I are capable of building our own car but we know for the money we would be much better off buying a race ready car. Please give us some advice, and if you know of a good car for sale please let us know.

Thanks,
Aaron

[RacerBill]

First let me introduce myself. My name is Aaron and I am a Junior High Shop Teacher and Real Estate Agent in S.W. Missouri. My brother (also a teacher) and myself want to start road racing. It is something both of use have wanted to do all of our lives, just never had the opportunity to do so. We are looking for a race ready car to purchase. I think we have set our sights on ITA. We would like to get some opinions on what type of car is competitive, dependable and economical (if there is such a thing). We have found a Saturn SC2 (very nice car) and a Honda Civic Si that we are interested in, but we don't know which would be the best setup. I realize that there are more Honda's out there and the aftermarket parts and tech support are much greater. I have found very little for the Saturn. My biggest concern about the Saturn is the realiablity of the engine and transmission, compaired to the Honda's. Are there any other cars out there that run up front that we are overlooking. My brother and I are capable of building our own car but we know for the money we would be much better off buying a race ready car. Please give us some advice, and if you know of a good car for sale please let us know.

Thanks,
Aaron
[/b]

GET THE BOOK!!!!!!!!!

In case you did not get the title, it's 'Go Ahead and Take The Wheel'

Buy a car. Winter and Spring are the best times to look. Check out the classifieds on this forum. Everyone will be happy to give you their opinion on particular cars. Build you own first car should be a last and only chance option (been there, done that). Although, driving a car that your wife swore was ready for Volunteers of America can be pretty satisfying.

Where are you located? Getting to some locals will be very helpful.

Anyway, welcome to the insanity! Have fun.

[joeg]

I would advise the HONDUH over the Saturn.

[SLUF]

We have a local racer here in the St. Louis area running a Saturn (very well!) in ITA. His name is Dana Hullinger. If I can get some contact info I will pass it on. Plus 1 on reading the book on how to get started. Seems you are going in the right direction with asking questions. Don't be wary about asking the stupid stuff too since we all started out that way. I think you will find that most of the participants on this board are more than willing to share some valuable insight and opinions. You did not mention where in SW Missouri you are located but if its near Joplin you may want to take a trip to visit Saferacer's facility on US-71 just south of I-44. Ask for Charlie James and tell him Bud sent you! They handle all manner of safety stuff like suits, helmets, belts..............and Charlie runs a stable of Spec Miatas. Good luck with your research and car selection.
Bud Scott

[mbuskuhl]

Mazda claims to be the most raced manufacturer by amateurs. I believe it and they do a great job of supporting their racers, more so than any other manufacturer in my opinion. Parts are plentiful and reasonable. Consider a Miata, 1st Gen RX7 (although those seem to be slowly going away) or a 2nd Gen RX7. All 3 of these are very popular and well supported. There should be a good selection of these on the used market to buy already built.

[buldogge]

1) You're on the right path by buying instead of building (at least the first time around).

2) You've got decent access to Hallett, HPT/Topeka, MAM, and GIR/St. Louis...Memphis may not be too bad if you are close to cutting through Arkansas.

3)ITA numbers were pretty good last season...but...I think you guys should join us in ITS (we need some fresh faces/blood)...although I am obviously biased.

Either way...We look forward to seeing more new racers in '08!!!

Good luck...

[arpenn]

Thanks guys for all the advice, I really do appreciate it (keep it coming, we need all the help we can get)!! I live just outside of Springfield, MO which is about 45 min. north of Branson, MO. We are within a few hours of all the tracks mentioned. I think our plan at this point is to first find a car. Then we plan on running some of the High Speed Touring open sessions at Hallett, then maybe running the COMMA series also at Hallett. Once we have some experience then we will begin the process of getting our SCCA license and then our NASA license. I have heard of the book and will have to try and find a copy. I have considered the Mazda cars, but we don't know anything about rotary engines. I know they are popular and competitive, the engines just scare me. Between myself, my father and my uncle we have a lot of engine building experience, but none of us have ever touched a rotary engine.

Thanks again for the responses!
Aaron

[gran racing]

Welcome to the fun and insanity Aaron!

Jeff Lawton who posts here regularly is running a Saturn and is doing quite well with it. Like you said, one downside is the lack of off-the-shelf parts and I would imagine there are not a ton in the junk yard for body pannels, ect. My Prelude suffers from this too, and it often becomes a challenge sourcing various items making things a bit more challenging. Then again, if that Saturn is well-built and the price is right...

An ITA Miata could be a good option too. At the same time, you can't go wrong too wrong with one of the Honda's. It sounds like your short term goals are simply to get out on the track, gain experience, and have fun. Have you guys given any thought to some of your longer term goals? Will it be a goal to become a front runner or would you be o.k. with racing somewhere in the middle of the pack? Approximately what is your budget for the car?

Since you're a shop teacher (and I realize there are several different areas this could include), is there any way to get your school to buy into a school racing program? Just curious your school and the students would have interest on helping to maintain a cool racecar.



Thanks for the book plug Bill.

[tom91ita]

you will not be disappointed with a honda.

not my cars but just an idea of pricing:

http://waterfordhills.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=466

http://waterfordhills.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=404

[ddewhurst]

***I know they are popular and competitive, the engines just scare me. Between myself, my father and my uncle we have a lot of engine building experience, but none of us have ever touched a rotary engine.***

Aaron, that's the point with a rotary motor. If you don't over heat them you don't need to touch them.

[tom91ita]

a timely thread regarding choices:

http://www.roadrace-autox.com/bbs/forums/t...osts=51&start=1

it is also a website that many from here frequent as well.

[spnkzss]

I'm a big proponent of going Honda. My only suggestion is that if you have NO racing experience, I would be hesitant about driving a CRX as your first race car. I can't tell you how many people I have known that have either gotten out of it all together or have come close to getting out of it because they can't afford to keep fixing it when they wreck it. They are fast cars, but as some people have put it, you have to "wreck" the car every corner to make it fast. They are twitchy cars that get very tale happy quickly. They are one of 3 ITA cars to have in my opinion, but not as a first car. Not unless you detune it or find someone to detune (tighten) it up for you. One person I know wrecked one 4 times in 3 weekends.

TIFWIW. Most CRX guys should be able to tell you the same thing.

[Z3_GoCar]

Thanks guys for all the advice, I really do appreciate it (keep it coming, we need all the help we can get)!! I live just outside of Springfield, MO which is about 45 min. north of Branson, MO. We are within a few hours of all the tracks mentioned. I think our plan at this point is to first find a car. Then we plan on running some of the High Speed Touring open sessions at Hallett, then maybe running the COMMA series also at Hallett. Once we have some experience then we will begin the process of getting our SCCA license and then our NASA license. I have heard of the book and will have to try and find a copy. I have considered the Mazda cars, but we don't know anything about rotary engines. I know they are popular and competitive, the engines just scare me. Between myself, my father and my uncle we have a lot of engine building experience, but none of us have ever touched a rotary engine.

Thanks again for the responses!
Aaron
[/b]

My brother lives in Branson and used to teach band there, he's now teaching in Marionville.

Anyway, I just have to say this (maybe because I'm biased) but all the cars you're talking about are driven by the wrong end. Also the Miata is a traditional four cylinder piston engine. The one to look for are the NA ( first generation) series with the 1.8l motor that's the '94-'97 model years. That's what I'd get to run ITA in, if I were to replace the Z3 with.

James

[shwah]

Actually, IMO at lower power levels fwd is an advantage. When momentum is everything, I will take the chassis that allows me to floor it as soon as possible on corner entry. The crossover point where fwd fails to be an advantage is probably in the upper ITA/ lower ITS power level.

But as noted, just my opinion.

[BrandonP]

Well a Miata was my first choice (I am the brother btw ) but they are just out of our price range from the ITA/ITB ones I have seen. I would prefer a rear wheel drive car, but I will run anything.

[dj10]

Thanks guys for all the advice, I really do appreciate it (keep it coming, we need all the help we can get)!! I live just outside of Springfield, MO which is about 45 min. north of Branson, MO. We are within a few hours of all the tracks mentioned. I think our plan at this point is to first find a car. Then we plan on running some of the High Speed Touring open sessions at Hallett, then maybe running the COMMA series also at Hallett. Once we have some experience then we will begin the process of getting our SCCA license and then our NASA license. I have heard of the book and will have to try and find a copy. I have considered the Mazda cars, but we don't know anything about rotary engines. I know they are popular and competitive, the engines just scare me. Between myself, my father and my uncle we have a lot of engine building experience, but none of us have ever touched a rotary engine.

Thanks again for the responses!
Aaron [/b]

Watch what wins the BIG races and then buy one of them and learn how to drive.

[tom91ita]

i am not sure i agree with the comments about the crx being that tail happy. a lot of it is set up, etc.

i have been driving them for quite a while and have not had that big of an issue.

but i will also say, whatever you get, do some shake-downs at an autocross first. have that first "oh no" moment in a more controlled environment.

do this at 45 mph instead of 95:



well, maybe never mind on them not being that tail happy.

[spnkzss]

Let me rephrase from tail happy. They are not very forgiving. Which is fine and fast, just rough on a rookie driver. Now if you've come from some other form of racing you may be able to get a grasp on it fast.

[Speed Raycer]

Dont rule out some of the BMW's & the 240sx's if you're dead set on RWD. The 1st Gen RX7's are a decent choice in MiDiv as we've got IT7 available (just had a 5 car class at GIR last weekend). Unfortunately, 2 of the fastest cars were sold out of region in the last year. IIRC, IT7 driver Scott Gobel is from Springfield.

If you do go rotary, make sure you pop for a good motor & keep it cool

Cars pop up for sale every once in a while on Midiv.org, solo2.org I'm sure the Ozark Mt Region has a site as well.

Welcome to the madness! See you at some MiDiv tracks next year! (Yellow/Black ITA Neon w/ Izzy's stickers all over it )

[loperdw]

I’ve been racing since May 2006, still a newbie I guess, and so I remember what you are going through. My thoughts…

Can’t say it enough, get the book. It will either scare you off completely, or make you sink your teeth in deeper.

Find a mentor and crew for them. Get out to the track and turn a wrench for someone. There is a bunch of stuff (tricks, myths, and ways to make your life easier at the track) that I needed to learn and I’m glad I found someone that had done if before. They don’t have to be a champion, just someone that you think you can learn from. I got really lucky in that department.

Buy a built car that has a good history. I bought my car after the guy who built it won the ARRC in 2005 with it. Idea being I know the car is fast, now I just have to work on me getting it to be fast, i.e. learn how to race. Doesn’t mean I don’t chase gremlins, just means I can’t blame the car for being slow. I also based my decision on how many of the same car I could find in the local junk yards. You’re going to needs parts…

If you can, run DE’s, as much as you can. Find out if there are any schools that run the local tracks and get track time under safe conditions. When I drove for my Novice SCCA school I’d already run the track at least 5 weekends prior to the school. As such I wasn’t spending valuable brain function on learning the track.

I always use good tires and brake pads. My butt isn’t trained well enough yet to know when things are going south 100% of the time. I’m getting better at it, but I still get surprised from time to time.

Since you and your brother are doing this together, I’d suggest the Miata (please other Honda owners don’t throw things at me as I have a good reason for this suggestion). Dual classed. One of you can run ITA while the other runs SM. Everyone gets to enjoy themselves.

Lastly, buy an EZ-up. Don’t waste cash on the crap pop-ups canopies.