formula ford vs IT?

[JWiley]

I raced F440 back in the 80's and 90's (now F500), and it was a great experience until the SCCA got involved in an engine program and rules creep ruined the class. We had 15 car fields at regionals, and a good car cost $5K to $6K; now, cars cost $20K and there are very few cars at most races. I don't know what the situation is in Canada, but since these cars have snowmobile drive trains. it would seem to be a good fit in the Great White North! Seriously, if you find that there is a viable F500 presence where you will be racing, it's a relatively inexpensive way to get into open wheel, and the feel of the cars will give you a pretty good taste of the thrill of open-wheel racing. Don't let the "Formula Chain Saw" mockers disuade you, the cars are a blast!

James Wiley
Atlanta Region / HP Midget #72

[fonzy]

well our open wheel grids are quit small , and if i do join them it will be in a much older car , and a 1600 car , most of the stuff now id f2000's 2.ol with wings and slicks

[Quickshoe]

Have you considered http://www.formula1200.com/f1200costs.php ???

[Greg Amy]

...i thought you guys would flying the IT banner a little higher?[/b]

One nice thing about this forum: there tends to be a modicum of reason and objectivity interspersed with the unreasonableness and subjectivity...

If you're a fan of road racing, you're likely a fan of open-wheelers. We all realize they're a lot of fun, but it's a different kettle of fish. Sports cars evolved from production-based cars (hell, Formula One was based on production cars long, long ago) and I suspect we all harbor latent desires to drive a formula car (which exhibits itself in our enjoyment of karting on occasion...)

But, production-based cars are "easier": buy your fav old junker or salvage-titled car and turn it into a race car in your garage. Buy spare parts at AutoZone. Hell, license the damn thing and drive it to work!

Can't do that with a Club Ford... - GA

[924Guy]

Just bumped into a buddy of mine who moved up to CFC's... he mentioned it's a grand a weekend...

[supersmile]

"Just bumped into a buddy of mine who moved up to CFC's... he mentioned it's a grand a weekend... "

I did 13 races this year in FC and it cost about $700/weekend not including hotel and gas to the track, but including entry fees, repairs, tires, race gas, and a new engine for next year! That's on a regional level, like CFC would be.

[Knestis]

About the same time NW Region was playing around with its first set of (pre-national) IT rules, a couple of guys designed a thing they called Sports 1600.

This was when S2000s were still new but were already expensive and one of our friends built a CSR on an old SuperVee Ralt chassis (RT1, I think), with swoopy bodywork off of a Shrike S2. He burned up WAY more money they expected and the thing never worked very well, as far as I know.

Anyway, we were all hot on sports racers but financial reality made them a really dumb option. So (over beer and pizza, of course) Sports 1600 was born. Recipe follows:

** One Formula Vee of your choice - remove engine and bodywork, and warm over as necessary

** One dual-port 1600cc aircooled VW engine - stock rebuild from a contracted shop, claim price would be the same as a new one

** One set of bodywork of your choice or design. Must cover the wheels and space between them when viewed from the top but may be either full-envelope or "pontoon" style

** Run wing(s) if you think you can push them through the air and gain more than you lose

** 5x15" wheels with spec radial tires. At the time, I think we were looking at H-rated Goodyear Eagle GTs.

** Go racing.

A full pack of these things would have been great fun. This was (although not by much) pre-Spec Renault (now SRF). That option never really got me going although they are better now. Bodywork that didn't look like a baboon running away from you would help.

One factor has made formula cars WAY more reasonable in the last few years: The ready availability of pretty good rod ends. Used to be that a guy could go broke replacing tired rod ends on a FF or similar car but I think that situation has gotten a lot better. It's still bucks-up to have uprights ND tested, or to replace them when they are found to have cracks. Things like brake tophats are silly expensive unless you know a friendly machinist.

And there's another factor that might not be popular to talk about. You can actually kill yourself a lot more effectively in even a CF, compared to an IT or similar car. We don't have anything like the number of incidents in Fords that we have in IT (since the racing is NOTHING like as close) but when/if they do happen, open-wheel shunts are nothing to sneeze at. Scrounge up some footage of the old FF Festivals in Jolly Old, if you want to see some hair-raising tangles.

K

[gran racing]

You can actually kill yourself a lot more effectively in even a CF, compared to an IT or similar car.[/b]

This is actually something I was just thinking about. Last year I made a voyage into a wall at Lime Rock at about 70 mph, and walking away from the car the thing that hurt the most was knowing I just totalled it. I'm not convinced I would have been as fortunate in an open wheel car.

I think it would be an absolute blast to drive an open wheel car, and probably even race one for a few events. I do feel that I'd quickly miss the many great things of racing sedans pretty quickly.

[ggnagy]

About the same time NW Region was playing around with its first set of (pre-national) IT rules, a couple of guys designed a thing they called Sports 1600.

This was when S2000s were still new but were already expensive and one of our friends built a CSR on an old SuperVee Ralt chassis (RT1, I think), with swoopy bodywork off of a Shrike S2. He burned up WAY more money they expected and the thing never worked very well, as far as I know.

Anyway, we were all hot on sports racers but financial reality made them a really dumb option. So (over beer and pizza, of course) Sports 1600 was born. Recipe follows:

** One Formula Vee of your choice - remove engine and bodywork, and warm over as necessary

** One dual-port 1600cc aircooled VW engine - stock rebuild from a contracted shop, claim price would be the same as a new one

** One set of bodywork of your choice or design. Must cover the wheels and space between them when viewed from the top but may be either full-envelope or "pontoon" style

** Run wing(s) if you think you can push them through the air and gain more than you lose

** 5x15" wheels with spec radial tires. At the time, I think we were looking at H-rated Goodyear Eagle GTs.

** Go racing.

A full pack of these things would have been great fun. This was (although not by much) pre-Spec Renault (now SRF). That option never really got me going although they are better now. Bodywork that didn't look like a baboon running away from you would help.

[/b]

Occasionally, vintage "vsr"s from the North East will pop up on ebay or elsewhere. Same idea, except the chassis was replaced with a full 2 seater, usually LeGrand inspired and crude. I don't know if this was a regional or Solo I class attempt. There was also a short lived 'F100' class in England that was pretty much a cost controlled cousin to the DSR, and I believe cars designed for the former, ended up in the latter. The problem usually was cost controls that were not.

[Greg Amy]

...walking away from the car the thing that hurt the most was knowing I just totalled it. I'm not convinced I would have been as fortunate in an open wheel car. [/b]

...especially given the older tube-frame formula cars, where the design of those tubes surrounding your legs were never done with a consideration to crushability and/or leg protection...I can't imagine what a mess it would be in there if you hit the tire wall head-on at the bottom of the Downhill at Lime Rock...they'll likely be cutting you out of there.

[supersmile]

"...especially given the older tube-frame formula cars, where the design of those tubes surrounding your legs were never done with a consideration to crushability and/or leg protection...I can't imagine what a mess it would be in there if you hit the tire wall head-on at the bottom of the Downhill at Lime Rock...they'll likely be cutting you out of there."


True enough in older cars, not to mention the very real possiblility of chassis tubes that have rusted on the inside. On the other hand, newer designs are much better at providing protection, and cars are required to have crush boxes in front of the chassis. Since a formula car/driver weigh a third to half what a sedan does, there's a lot less momentum to deal with. I think in many types of crashes the lay down position in most open wheel cars is an advantage over the upright seating in a sedan, but then in a sedan you don't gererally need to be concerned with a car landing on your head.

I'd love to see some good stats on injuries/fatalities between the two types of car but have never been able to find them. Then again, maybe I'd rather not want to know....

[Quickshoe]

Things that make you go hmmmmmm.......I have felt for a long time that most of the fendered groups have a false sense of security regarding the safety of their cars versus open wheelers.

[fonzy]

well thanks for all the help , i have made the move and bought a 78 lola t540 formula ford

[Quickshoe]

Congratulations! Have a blast!