Neon Suspension School

[cjb25hs]

Here is what I have and what my plans are, looking for a little guidance.

I bought a 95ACR sedan setup for Nasa Spec neon, the car has the 22mm swaybars front and rear, Konis on the front and blown out Arvins on the rear with the Mopar high rate springs. My plans are to run ITA next year and obtain my license and run maybe a double regional.

My question is what rear shocks should I go with new Konis, used Konis or used Arvins, I know the konis would be adjustable but how do they compare to the Arvins and what kind of settings should I start with if I were to go with the konis front and rear. Currently the fronts have been sent about a half a turn from full firm.

Alignment I would be looking for about 2 to 3 negative front around 1 to 1.5 negative rear with zero toe all around.

Any help or suggestions would be great to a neon noob, I have been autocrossing for about 17 years and have done several track days so looking to make the leap to real fun.

Chris

[Greg Amy]

Neon (and any other strut-equipped car) suspension tips:

1) Buy the best and most expensive shocks you can afford
2) Build the suspension around that
3) Go back to step one and buy better ones.
4) Rinse, lather, repeat.

I'm serious. The core to making your can handle is dampers, dampers, dampers. "Arvin"? Never heard of 'em. But I can certainly attest to the Konis.

BTW, I hear Greg Mendle is working on a suspension based on the Koni 8611s, which are probably the best compromise between all-out suspension (Koni 2817s at $1500+ per corner) and crap (AGX, anything bolt-on, etc). He'll pipe in here soon, I'm sure, with more details. - GA

[Rabbit07]

Neon (and any other strut-equipped car) suspension tips:

1) Buy the best and most expensive shocks you can afford
2) Build the suspension around that
3) Go back to step one and buy better ones.
4) Rinse, lather, repeat.

I'm serious. The core to making your can handle is dampers, dampers, dampers. "Arvin"? Never heard of 'em. But I can certainly attest to the Konis.

BTW, I hear Greg Mendle is working on a suspension based on the Koni 8611s, which are probably the best compromise between all-out suspension (Koni 2817s at $1500+ per corner) and crap (AGX, anything bolt-on, etc). He'll pipe in here soon, I'm sure, with more details. - GA
[/b]

I second Mr. Amy.

If you want to even have a chance in ITA don't even think about the Arvins or the stock Konis. I use Multimatic shocks on mine, but have been looking into different choices.

For set-up -3 to -4.5 front camber, -1 to -1.5 rear camber, Some toe out will help turn in, so I would use it.
As much Caster as you can get.

You will need much higher spring rate than you think, and bigger bars don't hurt either.

[Greg Krom]

My suggestion would be to stick with the Spec Neon setup to start with. Replace the blown out Arvins with newer Arvins or Konis - if you can find used in good shape go for it. Keep the High Rate springs.

That setup is very well balanced and easy to drive and learn with. I'd wager that most newbies would actually be faster sooner with that setup than something more "trick". The hot setup is typically not very easy or comfortable to drive at the limit.

The SN setup is even fairly quick in the right hands. At Waterford Hills (very much a handling track) Cat Killer is typically 1.0-1.5 seconds faster than the quick Spec Neons (and we run on Toyos). The setup certainly can't win in ITA, or even run at the pointy end of the grid, but chances are you won't be there just coming out of school anyway.

Take the money that you save from not buying the ultra trick (and high $) suspension components and spend it on track time.

Then as time goes on and you develop your skills you can develop the chassis setup further.

With a developing car such as the Neon that also gives other, more experienced, drivers time to develop the hot setup. You can learn what works and doesn't work from THEIR testing.

[gran racing]

I've got to agree with Greg Krom for someone new to competitive racing. I started off with a non-adjustable suspension that was designed to be relatively easy for someone without a ton of experience racing or tuning. The company I worked with basically said I wasn't quite ready for some of the other options and this set-up would be a bit more forgiving for a novice. Now that I've gained more experience, I went along with Greg Amy's suggestion on getting as good of a suspension as I could afford keeping in mind the whole diminishing returns based on Koni's recommendation. The new suspension is definately faster, but also less forgiving.

[cjb25hs]

Thanks for everybody's input. I guess as far as car setup and what it takes to make the neon as fast as the Hondas depends on where you are running and the competition level. I know that this year at Beaverun the leading Spec Neons running on Toyos were running in the 1.09's which is only 2 seconds off the Ita record set there in 8/06 in a crx.

[GregM]

Spend the money on shocks. I can send you to the contact for what I have now. Its been a small leap since installing them and now we have to work on some setup. That takes time.

Needs more power as we get smoked by the ultra fast Miata and a few others.

Now lets get some more Neon's out there in ITA so its not just Chris and me !!!!

[Rabbit07]

Needs more power as we get smoked by the ultra fast Miata and a few others.

[/b]

Sounds like I need to build you an engine!

[JLawton]

Greg, everybody gets smoked by that Miata. Even on the long straights at Pocono!! <_<
And trust me, you have plenty of horsepower!!!

Although I can personally vouch for Chris&#39;s engine too!!!

[GregM]

When a car goes off / spins in F1 you don&#39;t see the car then repass the field and overcome a deficit like we are seeing in ITA.

It will sure be an interesting 2008.

[DoubleXL240Z]

Are you guys running the dohc or the sohc engines? I have run the DOHC this year and at a svelt 290 lbs. in the drivers seat I&#39;m still 180 lbs. light( the car... not me ). The car isn&#39;t anywhere near full prep as far as lightening or anything else. If a little guy buys this car, which the previous owner was, we would have to add a honda or something to the passenger side floor board. Any ideas.

[GregM]

Don&#39;t see how thats possible. Check your scales................................

[Greg Krom]

Don&#39;t see how thats possible. Check your scales................................
[/b]

That sounds about right actually. The spec weight for the DOHC is 2650, so that would put him at 2470. My car is at 2465 with a full tank of fuel and no ballast. I&#39;m guessing most DOHCs would have a real hard time getting up to the spec weight - I wanna say that my old car was under 2650 in SSC trim!

[Rabbit07]

That sounds about right actually. The spec weight for the DOHC is 2650, so that would put him at 2470. My car is at 2465 with a full tank of fuel and no ballast. I&#39;m guessing most DOHCs would have a real hard time getting up to the spec weight - I wanna say that my old car was under 2650 in SSC trim!
[/b]

Another reason that weight just isn&#39;t right! 2650 is too heavy for that car!

[Andy Bettencourt]

Another reason that weight just isn&#39;t right! 2650 is too heavy for that car! [/b]

150hp stock is pretty dang high for ITA. ITS weight would be about 2320 with driver so you are looking at a 2140lb car...

[Rabbit07]

Andy,

I am not challenging the process, I just think that the process failed in the case of the DOHC Neon. I have driven both kinds of Neons and even though the DOHC makes more HP it lacks torque. The result, a car that would have similar ability to it&#39;s SOHC brother if it were just a bit lighter. I aggree that it needs to be slightly heavier, just not 200 lbs.

I really like that fact that there is a process and I really think that it is great that there is an ITAC. I just think that some cars just don&#39;t work in the process, ie the DOHC Neon, the MR2, ect. It is what it is, and that is why I am driving a SOHC.

Thanks and please keep up the good work! IT is much better now than 4 years ago.