Wheels, wheels, and more wheels

[JamesB]

Trust me, EVERYONE would love to do this cheaper. But you also have to have rules that make sense.
This forum isn't associated with the SCCA.

Wouldn't it be cheapest and easiest to run stock wheels?? Did your GTi come with stock 7" wheels? If it's an A1, you can get stock wheels for almost FREE!!. So I guess I'm a little confused on where you're coming from?

Let me throw another question at you. The A1 front bearings are known weak point and should be changed multiple times a season for safety. Although not a bank breaker, it's still some coin. If Audi bearings were used with a little modification of the knuckle, they would rarely go bad and would save some money. So, do you think that should be allowed?

My point is it starts to open a can of worms. We can't make the rules based on cost. A new guy looking to race isn't going to make his dcision about IT based on the fact that 7" wheels are legal. It's still cheap to find a stock car (and wheels), put safety gear in it and race!
[/b]

ding ding ding!!! I run stock OEM VW wheels. Though I did luck out with my knowledge and rummaging and get myself now 3 sets of OEM forged castelette (carbriolet) 14x6 wheels for my dry tires and I run snowflakes for my DE instructing and wet tires. Since I got my permit I have gone from a 1:38.xx at summit point to consistently running in the 34's and I am sure with more driver development and a minor alignment change and I can even best that (taking in the face come spring the track will be faster in general.)

I am not trying to protect anything, let the pointy end go out and buy an new set of panasport 13x6 for their 2002, I will stick with my oem wheels. The other reason I see no reason to go lighter wheels right now is it just means finding more room for another 40-50# of lead in passanger side of the car. Why bother when I am not at that point of the field and heck why not be in that end fo the field on stock wheels?

[Doc Bro]

Looks like the definitions of WANT and NEED should be clarified.


Need; air, water, nourishment, shelter.....deserted island type of stuff.

Want; evrything else.......


Carry on.

R

[gran racing]

well the class was started to give people a chance and reason to race.....[/b]

IT remains one of the best categories for people to get into racing on a reasonable budget. I can understand the frustration that Scot expressed about the overall availability of lightweight 5 x100 rims at a reasonable cost that would improve vehicles’ performance. (I do feel for Bill if those wheels are that heavy.) The key to that is improve performance, not be able to race. The argument that a person is unable to race within IT because they can’t use a 7” rim is simply not accurate. [Insert Gary's post here] Entry level you say? When a person enters the world of IT racing they either buy a previously built car, or decide to build a car. In either of these cases, the easiest and least expensive option for the person is to use the rims which came with car even if that’s the OEM rims. Need additional rims or want something a bit different? Make a trip to the junk yard where they have books containing information on what various makes / models of cars use what type of rims, and very inexpensively pick up a set or two.

I know that I said this before, but I started in ITA with 5” rims then moved up to 5.5” rims. At that point in my career and budget, that was not what was holding me back.

[Doc Bro]

Scot,

When I started in IT I bought an SSB car that had SSB legal 8" wide wheels....not legal for IT....but LEGAL for SSB. How's that one?

I ended up using 16x7 Spin Werkes made special. Thank God Kosei reintroduced the 16x7 in BMW holes. You should try to find a taller (16") wheel in a narrow width. Rim makers don't make too many pizza cutters for BMW.


R

[GKR_17]

This rule isn't broken. Those of us with odd cars will have trouble finding cheap parts. Factor that in when you choose a car. You won't get any sympathy from me. Try and find some 17"x8.5" rims with a 5x130 pattern that are light, strong, and cheap.

[lateapex911]

...... Unlike you I dont want funding, and frankly dont need it. [/b]

Aren't you the same guy who stated earlier that if you can't get tires cheap and so forth that you won't race, due to budget constraints?

earlier this month you said.....

Im what you would call a "budget minded racer". With that said, because of the budget that I have,(or lack of) I look for ways that I can save money while still being able to race. One of the ways is having an unlimited supply of take off wheels from a friend who once the tires dont feel brand new, are discarded. These tires i could easily run an entire season on. Heres the catch, the tires are 205-50-15. Which means i would have to fork over $299 per wheel for some ssr's in order to take advantage of this opportunity. All that money being spent because in the gcr it states that I can go to a 15" wheel, but it has to be 6" in width. So, that one inch is keeping me from buying a kosei or a kazera at about $109 a wheel(give or take a few bucks). I really would love to come back to racing after sidelining for the past 6 years, but this simple one inch rule is prob gonna keep from re-entering.[/b]

You want more competitors, and want to appeal to the "younger" crowd? Someone who wants to get started who is constricted by a silly rule about 1" for a width of a wheel is probably going to go elsewhere.[/b]

yea, like to another car with better wheel options, or hey, if they are set on the idea that rims have to be X" wide, why not go ITA? Tons of very reasonable choices there. And lets use some common sense here. The cost of the car is really a drop in the bucket when it comes to the big picture racing budget. Anyone considering racing needs to do their homework. They need, like anything else in life, to decide what their goals are, and then decide how to best get to those goals. Often people "have" a car, and think they are most of the way to those goals. That's usually the shortsighted approach, and there's remorse down the road.

New racers have plenty of choices...but...they need to choose wisely. And yes, we do need to balance the needs of the paying customers with those of the potential customers, but in so doing, it is important to remember the phrase about a bird in the hand...

This is my call for everyone to think outside of the box. The intent of the class is far different from the rules. Who exactly thought of the rule for Improved touring competitors to be able to change rim sizes? Did they take any consideration of the width, availability, performance advantages, disadvantages? My guess is not...[/b]

My guess is that you weren't there in 84 and 85, and can't remember that a 7" wide rim was the shizznizle compared to the 4.5 - 6" stock offerings...

By the way, I work hard,(scars to prove it) I work long, and I do indeed work smart. Who cares if someone you may lap in a race has a wheel thats 1" wider than yours? Is it really going to make a difference in the bigger picture?

lighten up [/b]

No, but I DO care if Bob gets beaten after doing his homework and working just as hard as anyone by a Frank who comes in with a wider rim. Or the hundreds like Bob....

I'm (when my ITAC hat is on...) charged with protecting the stability of the category, and unless there is clear and undeniable evidence that a rule change is going to help a situation, and the lack of a change is going to hurt the situation, I have to hold.

[Quickshoe]

I chose the car I chose because I needed a challenge to delay the boredom. In choosing the car I knew of certain shortcomings...(availability of lightweight wheels being one of them) and certain things that I felt were advantages. I did my homework and chose my poison.

Now, if a rule was changed to eliminate one of the shortcomings of my choice why wouldn't I support it? Some may consider my choice of marque dumb, but I am not stupid!

[vr6guy]

84 and 85? yeah i was there... I dont even know where to begin. Some peoples perception on this matter, or debate, is way off the beaten path. Its no use arguing with people with the blinders on
ITB car running in spu? more shrimp please

[raffaelli]

As a complete new guy, my eyes were set on 15x7 kosei rims with 225 Hoosiers. Well, that stuff is on my 'nice to have list'. The Del Sol 14x6 rims which came with the car when I bought it and close out 205 Kuhmo's are what I am starting my racing career on. I decided that using that portion of my start up budget was better spent on some useful tools like a Mig welder and a compressor instead of cool rims and expensive rubber. I can get by with what I have on the car. There is always 'next year' for the cool stuff. Don't get me wrong...it is killing me that my 'have to have list' is nearly resolved and not one item on the 'nice to have list' has been marked off.

[lateapex911]

Smart....lots of guys never delegate like that. And you know what? No offense, but, you'll be nearly as fast, if not as fast for your first few events on those tires and wheels. Few of us were able to get within 93% of the cars capability for the first few events, and when the time difference between a setup like yours and the ideal setup is about 3 seconds in a 60 second lap, the numbers don't support the expenditure right away.

[shwah]

I am NOT trying to make any statements with this, but trying to help fellow 5x100 racers find some deals. This link is to a 13# 5x100 15x6 OEM Audi wheel set that I just stumbled upon for sale.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3490653

[JamesB]

Leave it to anthony to find some obscure light weight OEM wheel.

[ScotMac]

I am NOT trying to make any statements with this, but trying to help fellow 5x100 racers find some deals. This link is to a 13# 5x100 15x6 OEM Audi wheel set that I just stumbled upon for sale.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3490653
[/b]

Nice wheels....too bad only a couple sets of them in the entire US.

[JamesB]

Scot,

But what he is getting at is if you search you can find something for a steal you just have look. I could pick up a prize of light weight wheels. but that money is better spent fixing the car and preparing it for next season.

[shwah]

I wasn't trying to get at anything. I just figured Scot or others might want that particular set. Maybe some enterprising racer can find a way to source these from overseas scrap yards. Just trying to help those with more difficult wheel situations than me.

[ScotMac]

Scot,

But what he is getting at is if you search you can find something for a steal you just have look. I could pick up a prize of light weight wheels. but that money is better spent fixing the car and preparing it for next season.
[/b]

Those wheels are not a steal. They are offered at $150/wheel, for a wheel that is marginal in terms of weight.

However, I agree that used wheels is an area of possible supply. However, it is quite limited. Especially in the lighter weights suitable to racing.

BTW, spinwerkes, have just machined 16 5x100 centers (they prevoiusly did not have the 5x100 centers available for the higher offsets needed on many of the IT race cars). Spinwerkes wheels are around 11lbs, and about $200/wheel.

I wasn't trying to get at anything. I just figured Scot or others might want that particular set. Maybe some enterprising racer can find a way to source these from overseas scrap yards. Just trying to help those with more difficult wheel situations than me.
[/b]

Chris, not trying to attack your post, just trying to be realistic, in terms of how it relates to the supply issue.

[vr6guy]

Aren't you the same guy who stated earlier that if you can't get tires cheap and so forth that you won't race, due to budget constraints?

earlier this month you said.....
yea, like to another car with better wheel options, or hey, if they are set on the idea that rims have to be X" wide, why not go ITA? Tons of very reasonable choices there. And lets use some common sense here. The cost of the car is really a drop in the bucket when it comes to the big picture racing budget. Anyone considering racing needs to do their homework. They need, like anything else in life, to decide what their goals are, and then decide how to best get to those goals. Often people "have" a car, and think they are most of the way to those goals. That's usually the shortsighted approach, and there's remorse down the road.

New racers have plenty of choices...but...they need to choose wisely. And yes, we do need to balance the needs of the paying customers with those of the potential customers, but in so doing, it is important to remember the phrase about a bird in the hand...
My guess is that you weren't there in 84 and 85, and can't remember that a 7" wide rim was the shizznizle compared to the 4.5 - 6" stock offerings...
No, but I DO care if Bob gets beaten after doing his homework and working just as hard as anyone by a Frank who comes in with a wider rim. Or the hundreds like Bob....

I'm (when my ITAC hat is on...) charged with protecting the stability of the category, and unless there is clear and undeniable evidence that a rule change is going to help a situation, and the lack of a change is going to hurt the situation, I have to hold.
[/b]

So your sayin its ok by you that someone spends an extreme amount of money to race in improved touring? The racing category invented to provide a place for people to race, and not guaranteed to win. A racing category designed for the entry level racer. So you think that its fair to have a $5000 car in the same race as a $30,000 to $40,000 car?(goescompletely against the intent of the class) Thats comical if you think it is. The remark about getting funding for racing is also comical, for the simple fact that this is supposed to be entry level racing. If you want to go that route than go national or pro. Leave the people that want to have a place to race and compete alone in improved touring. so exactly what is the reason that were allowed to run a larger diameter wheel. If you think about it realisticly, the contact patch of the tire to the track increases,(in my mind and anyone that has been through physics will know that a bigger contact patch will improve friction, which improves grip and handling). I dont want the super light wheels like you think I do. I merely want to utilize the rule of being able to use a 15" wheel REALISTICLY......

Marc Rider