SARRC Points Proposal

[Ron Earp]

Ron, you'd be surprised what a beginner can do. My slow ass has finished 6th in ITA points the last two years (which is significant because you get a plaque to commemorate your effort and thousands of dollars spent ). This is mainly because I've done my 6+ races and finished every race. I pretty much illustrate what the season championship is about. I ain't the fastest, but I show up and finish. Now all I have to do is get faster so I can move up a couple places next year.

David
[/b]

Those double SAARCs are where it is at. I'm not sure I'd like to tow 5 hours for a single. The SIC would be the only track I think I'd do that at.

Any chance of changing some of the rules around so a region can have more than one double a year? I mean if the club racers want to drive it and pay to come what is the issue with restricting how many doubles you can have?

David you are driving well AND finishing. Important! Nice work, very nice job. I've not had the best of luck finishing and BARELY made my three SAARCs to drive the SIC. I towed to about all the SAARCs though but withdrew or DNFed a bunch. You make your luck though and I'm working hard to make 2008 different.

Ron

[raceit]

If SARRC races are so important to everyone.........................explain this...................
according to DLB racing, the entry numbers are this.................

SIC ....total entries.......194

1 week later Sebring, a plain jane regional........276

I see the desire for more SARRC races in Florida, or do I?

Maybe you drivers from the north can enlighten me on this

[RX3]

If they would change the rules the Central Florida Region could hold a triple race weekend. And you get it all in two weekends.

Quote rlearp

"David you are driving well AND finishing. Important! Nice work, very nice job. I've not had the best of luck finishing and BARELY made my three SAARCs to drive the SIC. I towed to about all the SAARCs though but withdrew or DNFed a bunch. You make your luck though and I'm working hard to make 2008 different."

Ron
That is strange I see a car that only ran two races and got to go to the SIC.

[raceit]

If they would change the rules the Central Florida Region could hold a triple race weekend. And you get it all in two weekends.

Quote rlearp

"David you are driving well AND finishing. Important! Nice work, very nice job. I've not had the best of luck finishing and BARELY made my three SAARCs to drive the SIC. I towed to about all the SAARCs though but withdrew or DNFed a bunch. You make your luck though and I'm working hard to make 2008 different."

Ron
That is strange I see a car that only ran two races and got to go to the SIC.
[/b]

Not only that........ HE WON THE RACE

Who is responsible for that?

[JeffYoung]

Huh??? Ron finished three races, one at Rockingham and two at CMP, and finished 10th at the SIC.

Yes, except for Daytona which I would go to just for the track, I would only tow to Florida for a double and even then, probably wouldn't do that.

You guys in Florida need more double SARRC weekends. They are our bread and butter up here, and good racing. Qualifying morning and race afternoon both days.

[raceit]

Another scenario.............. SARRC vs CFR reg

Labor Day.. Atl Reg Dbl SARRC 112 entries

Same weekend Sebring, plain jane regional w/ regional enduro 245 entries

Can you explain the emphasis on SARRC races, especially doubles?

[JeffYoung]

Raceit, I'm not sure I understand your question.

What I can tell you is that the Labor Day Atlanta Region Double SARRC was held at Nashville Motor Speedway, which is not seen as an "attractive" place to race and is a LONG ways from most of the rest of the SEDiv. This is what kept car counts down.

That said, we probably don't get more than 150 to 200 cars at most Double SARRC weekends. The higher car counts in Florida I think reflect a greater density of race cars (I believe Ron Earp and I are the ONLY ITS cars in NCR REgion 55 for example), plus higher profile more attractive tracks -- Sebring and Daytona.

So, again, I guess the real question is -- why not more double SARRCs in Florida and if it is this "single double" rule, then let's change it.

[seckerich]

Raceit=troll, but lets play along. You are well aware that sunny Florida with all their wonderful tracks can call it anything they want and fill the place. Good weather year round attracts and encourages more racing. Congratulations!! Many of your racers just run the florida series and are happy. It is a little different up here in NC. VIR is the only facility that has that draw for us. Double SARRC races pay the bills and make it cheaper for drivers with expenses. Same money to tow for one race as two.

The SARRC rules restrict to one double per TRACK by a region with a waiver to SC for Kershaw.

[tom_sprecher]

Another scenario.............. SARRC vs CFR reg

Labor Day.. Atl Reg Dbl SARRC 112 entries

Same weekend Sebring, plain jane regional w/ regional enduro 245 entries

Can you explain the emphasis on SARRC races, especially doubles?
[/b]

You compare apples to oranges. There are a lot more variables a driver considers when choosing when and where to race. SARRC and double race weekends are just two of many. As others have mentioned there is also the drive time, budget, track, weather, etc. Personally, how many of my friends (and sometimes which ones ) will be at a race is a very important factor to consider as I feel a weekend at the track with out them just isn't as much fun.

Maybe it's a different mind set in Area 3. I know a couple of drivers there that talk mainly about how they are doing "in the points". They are talking about regional points. I don't think most Area 12 drivers would know where to find their regional points. SARRC points, on the other hand, is a totally different story.

For what it's worth, when we had Road Atlanta on Labor Day Weekend we typically had closer to 300 entries...

[RX3]

Steve, Jeff and Ron

You are missing the point. SARRC is supported by the people that do not go to SIC. (count the number of people that have points and do not go to the SIC--- that will give you a good idea of what I am talking about ) Most of the moneys that goes to the trophy fund comes from the people that are just running another race and want a place to race, not people chasing a championship. Yes the double format draws more cars because there is more opportunity to race. (The more doubles you have, the more you dilute the draw of a double) Drivers are not there because it a SARRC. Yes there is a need for SARRC championship racing, but there is a bigger need for just another race. How do you think NASA got a foot hold in racing? Then look at their format (more that one race on a weekend). It is not about championship racing it is about supplying a place to race. The region only has one thing to sell and that is track time. How they do it should be up to the region not up to SARRC or anyone else. They have to make money to be able to stay in business. The more rules that are put on them by special interest groups (i.e. SARRC, ECR, Pro IT and National Racing ) the harder it is to put on a race and the less attractive it is to put on. Racing is a very fragile business and is hard to manage at the club level.
You said that the C.R.F. has a large car count because of the tracks they run on. Well I do not think that 1.7 miles of track at Sebring, the short course (club course), is a championship course but last year in February they had over 300 cars. I thought that road Atlanta is a championship track (why is their car count low?) You get car count by providing what the racers want (a place to race their car) at a price they can afford and by making it easy to get to the track (i.e. friendly people.--- 1st Registration needs to help people register at the track. 2nd Techs to help the drivers get their cars on the track and make them safe, not find a way to disqualify them. Rule compliance will come with championship racing (do we really need the windshield washer bottle ), 3rd Timing needs to put out the results out in a timely manner. 4th The stewards need to be fair and understand that the region is putting on the race, not them. And the region is the one that is going to lose money if it goes bad. All this is very hard to do with volunteer people. We should not be hampered by the rules that we make. [u]

[JeffYoung]

RX, it took me a while to get what you are saying. I don't think we disagree - I am saying get rid of the "one double" rule, and allow a reasonable number of SARRCS in each region. There aren't enough in Florida now, add'em!

On your last points 1, 2, 3 adn 4, I think we are fortunate here in NC/SC/GA to already have all four of them.

[seckerich]

RX you are missing one point. It is your REGION that decides what races to host. They can choose to include SARRC, Pro IT, ECR, or any other series they wish. No region is forced to hold a SARRC event. It is actually quite competitive to get a SARRC weekend on the schedule. Host all the regionals you want, nobody is stopping you. Talk to your RE and get the rest of the story. Only about 1/3 of the entrants probably care about points in any series. You seem to have problems with every aspect of a club race by your post. You seem to believe Tech is out to get you, and registration is out to inconvenience you. When is the last time you volunteered to help with any of these specialties to make it better? If you want some change then step up and help.

PS. The SARRC fee is a whopping $4 http://www.sedivracing.org/SARRC/sarrc_sop_2007.pdf

[RX3]

I do not think that we need more doubles. I think that a region should have to put on a single in able to put on a double. And yes I think Atlanta region is an unfriendly place to race.

The last race that I worked was Sept 29&30 of this year. And the next race I will work will be Oct 20-21 of this month. And when did you work last?

And there is more of a cost to the Region that the $4 fee.

[seckerich]

I do not think that we need more doubles. I think that a region should have to put on a single in able to put on a double. And yes I think Atlanta region is an unfriendly place to race.

The last race that I worked was Sept 29&30 of this year. And the next race I will work will be Oct 20-21 of this month. And when did you work last?

And there is more of a cost to the Region that the $4 fee.
[/b]

Once again that is the decision your region has to make. You choose to run SARRC races, it is not forced on you. I am glad you are working races, it is appreciated by the drivers. I have been race chair and Tech many times this year as well. As for Atlanta region--support the races you enjoy and skip those that you do not like. Drop a note to the region if you have legitimate complaints. They might surprise you.

[Ron Earp]

I suppose each region is different. Doubles work well up here in NC/SC. If I am towing and spending $300 to get there and back I prefer to race twice. Most racers would agree with that I feel, at least the ones living around here that I know. Basically the staff count to run a single or double is the same, seems the double makes more sense.

The NC and SC/GA operational folks (CMP, Roebling, VIR, Rockingham) I've come in contact with in racing are fantastic. Points one through four are well covered by people that care. Sorry to hear you think your area isn't managing these things very well.

[raceit]

Huh??? Ron finished three races, one at Rockingham and two at CMP, and finished 10th at the SIC.

Yes, except for Daytona which I would go to just for the track, I would only tow to Florida for a double and even then, probably wouldn't do that.

You guys in Florida need more double SARRC weekends. They are our bread and butter up here, and good racing. Qualifying morning and race afternoon both days.[/b]

Why do we need more doubles? You just stated you probably wouldn't come. Doubles in our area limit the number of races. With a double, our drivers get more practice and qual time than race time and one race per day. We try to institute a 3 race weekend as was the last event at Daytona.

The $4 per car is per day on a double. With 300 - 400 cars that ia quite substantial when the SARRC title draws only a fraction of that car count.

[DavidM]

For what it's worth, when we had Road Atlanta on Labor Day Weekend we typically had closer to 300 entries...
[/b]

Damn AMA. I'd love to do a double at Road Atlanta on Labor Day. Oh well.

Maybe they could get a waiver for Barber and hold it at Barber....

David

[seckerich]

Why do we need more doubles? You just stated you probably wouldn't come. Doubles in our area limit the number of races. With a double, our drivers get more practice and qual time than race time and one race per day. We try to institute a 3 race weekend as was the last event at Daytona.

The $4 per car is per day on a double. With 300 - 400 cars that ia quite substantial when the SARRC title draws only a fraction of that car count.
[/b]

Lets see--- 400 x4$ =$1600 $200 entry fee average takes 8 cars to cover the cost. Yes it is more complex but you get the drift. Drop in the bucket when you rake in $80,000 plus garage rental. You kill me. So hold singles--who cares? We do not get the car counts here so we do doubles to get the entries. You make it pay with singles so whatever works. What does this have to do with points? 6 total posts and all bitching--you rock!! Getting bounced for the repave at Daytona should be a wake up call for you. Someone spends the big bucks like they did in Atlanta and you will be out the door too.

[RX3]

And I thought this was about whether or not to change SARRC,s rules.

And you think $25 is to much for a garage?

I also do not think that there should be any more waivers that are not good for the division.

Another double is not good for the division, just the region putting it on.

Steve you all ready said we have to many SARRC point races.

[JeffYoung]

This is getting silly. I think Steve nailed it. Doubles work in NC/SC/GA. Singles seem to work your way. So, we run doubles you run singles.

I just don't see any issue. What are we discussing again??