Anyone cross over to BMWCCA CR or NASA GTS?

[JoshS]

I've never raced anywhere but with the SCCA. Next season I'm considering doing some BMWCCA races and/or NASA races (in GTS2).

Just curious -- how do you all handle the crossover issues? Different decal requirements, etc?

I hate all of the required decals for BMWCCA ... if you cross over using the IT allowances, do all of the required decal rules apply? There are SO MANY. Do I have to run a number panel?

Do I really need NASA and/or BMWCCA logbooks? What about licensing? I've been trying to read about all of this and have managed to confuse myself. Is there an easier way to run with multiple clubs than to maintain separate licenses, logbooks, and decal packages?

[JeffYoung]

NASA Southeast will allow you to run one weekend on your SCCA license. You will get a logbook at your first event but is fairly easy if you have an SCCA one. Getting the NASA license after you run that first weekend is easy as well.

BMW CCA I don't know about.

[Ron Earp]

A little bit of thread drift, but in general how much does a BMW or PCA weekend cost?

Josh, what is the deal with decals? What do they require?

Having a car that could run in another club would influence my future (way future) ITR car. Even if not competitive in club format since IT is the main purpose, it would be cool to be able to run it somewhere else for fun.

Ron

[Knestis]

Having done crossover stuff since the '80s, I've arrived at the solution of putting the most applicable stickers on the car, then putting the short-term stuff (in my case, NASA stickers) on top of tape, over the more permanently attached sanction stickers, class letters, etc. For required event/series sponsors, I just make sure I hit the paint with some spray detailing stuff before I put them on, so they come right off afterward. I've been known to peel the car before I even leave the track.

K

Edit - one thought: Ask lots of questions and make sure you understand licensing/logbook rules for the sanctioning bodies you'll run. There can be advantages - and disadvantages - to be found where the overlap. For example, I had an SCCA Regional license and made the mistake of applying for an ICSCC "novice logbook," rather than just racing on my SCCA ticket, which Conference allowed. Once I HAD that novice ticket, they wouldn't let me go back: I had to finish the process to get upgraded to a full Conference license, which meant running their separate "Novice closed wheel" race group for several weekends. That was an anomaly but it taught me to make very sure I know what's going on.

[buldogge]

Hey Josh... You are required to run all the decals (sucks). You are required to send your "resume" to Fran with BMWCCA Club Racing...even if you're a national license holder...to get approved with a PROVISIONAL LICENSE. 2 races on the prov, under 13/13 rules and you get your BMWCCA Club Racing license.

Also a HANS (or other SFI Approved H+N restraint) is required.


I ran ONE race with BMWCCA...

[JoshS]

Hey Josh... You are required to run all the decals (sucks). You are required to send your "resume" to Fran with BMWCCA Club Racing...even if you're a national license holder...to get approved with a PROVISIONAL LICENSE. 2 races on the prov, under 13/13 rules and you get your BMWCCA Club Racing license.

Also a HANS (or other SFI Approved H+N restraint) is required.
I ran ONE race with BMWCCA...
[/b]

Considering that they're the smallest game in town, by far, you'd think they'd try a little harder to get some crossover.

Well, I might do it anyway.

Ron, here are the BMWCCA CR decal requirements. Basically, they require a specific number panel (yuck), a Tire Rack windshield banner, and a whole bunch of small rectangular decals from series sponsors.

Then NASA requires NASA decals left, right, front, and rear, and then GTS decals on each side. Not too tough to manage. It seems like if I switch to the BMWCCA decal package, it's not that hard to be legal for SCCA or NASA also, but ... it's ugly. I want to be SCCA first, and these other clubs 2nd and 3rd. Oh well.

Out here on the west coast, BMWCCA races are often one race group in a NASA race weekend, so you can run with both clubs on the same weekend at the same track, which is kind of nice.

I already have the HANS, but not the right-side net.

[chuck baader]

I leave all my SCCA decals on the car. I do use the BMWCCA number board, which I was asked to cover!! Anyway, all other decals I mount on 1/16" magnetic material (available form mcmaster dot com) then put them on the car as needed...be sure to tape the leading edge. Works great. Chuck

[Z3_GoCar]

Considering that they're the smallest game in town, by far, you'd think they'd try a little harder to get some crossover.

Well, I might do it anyway.

Ron, here are the BMWCCA CR decal requirements. Basically, they require a specific number panel (yuck), a Tire Rack windshield banner, and a whole bunch of small rectangular decals from series sponsors.

Then NASA requires NASA decals left, right, front, and rear, and then GTS decals on each side. Not too tough to manage. It seems like if I switch to the BMWCCA decal package, it's not that hard to be legal for SCCA or NASA also, but ... it's ugly. I want to be SCCA first, and these other clubs 2nd and 3rd. Oh well.

Out here on the west coast, BMWCCA races are often one race group in a NASA race weekend, so you can run with both clubs on the same weekend at the same track, which is kind of nice.

I already have the HANS, but not the right-side net.
[/b]

Josh,

We're lucky to have Mike Mills involved in the GGCBMW-CR organization. Mike's a former IT racer, having campaigned a 2002 for many years. As for the number panels, show up at the track and get the SSR-racing panels from Chris Welch, they're smaller than the club racing panel, then cut the border down. I only run the BMW Club decals, I did sign up for NASA but havn't run with them yet. If you attend an event as a BMW Club racer you'll only have to tech with the club and use a BMW Club license, no NASA license needed. One GGC race is also an SCCA event, the Vintage festival at Laguna-Seca has had a BMW run group. The Tirerack banner came in handy when I had to remove my windshield. As for the rest of the required decals, you can get the file and modify the colors and die cut them out. I know it seems the decal requirement was made for the sedans as it's a lot of vinal to stick on the side of our smaller cars.

You'll find that the racing is closer and more challenging. I think the largest event had over 42 cars this season. So even thought the BMW-CR is a smaller group, it's deep with talent.

James

[JeffYoung]

Follow question that Ron asked -- how do entry fees at BMWCCA events compare to SCCA?

BMWCCA HPDE events are pretty pricey at VIR -- I think now nearly $600 for a weekend. Are club races teh same?

[mgoulde]

Here's a couple of additional items. (BTW, Fran has retired, Trish at BMWCCA handles licenses).

If you're crossing over ITS or ITR to BMWCCA, you must follow SCCA GCR for ITS/ITR for all but safety equipment. BMWCCA rules for safety. This will put you at a distinct disadvantage to the other JP cars that are running cams, etc. Underdrive pulleys and spherical bearings and some weight won't make up that difference, although driving skill can.

Also, the 2008 BMWCCA rules have a problem. They used the ITR and ITS weights for these class cars running in JP. What they didn't realize was that these weights were set to make the ITR and ITS cars competitive with the other cars in their class. As a result, in BMWCCA JP, the ITR car is running at a lower weight than the ITS car. This is with the requirement that the ITS cars run with their SIR. Probably not too late to fix, but there will probably be 500 emails on the CR list before it gets straightened out.

SCCA NE Div requires you to cover stickers for other series, including conflicting class designations. Not the sponsors of those series. So you've to cover your class, the BMWCCA on the number board, and the BMW Club Racing sticker. Don't know about other Divisions.

In the NE, BMWCCA techs cars at each event in addition to the annual tech. PIA.

The upside to BMWCCA events is that you get 3 or 4 sessions on track each day. Costs more, but the extra track time is worth it.

The downside is that they really bust your chops on the 13/13. If you are in a one car incident and do damage to your car only - probation. Do it again, 13 month suspension. NASA GTS is more sensible on this, IMHO. Tip: Claim equipment failure if you can.

Michael Goulde

[cchandler]

Some great people in BMWCCA CR. There are very fast cars and talented drivers. However, it's also a place where a few "not so great " drivers take their beautiful showpieces for some track time.

Lots of decals required (that get covered for SCCA) but I've seen a few creative ways of application to lessen the overall coverage.

Lots of classes and not alot of cars. Kinda like being a T3 in SCCA; ya' might be racing against yourself.

They are serious about the 13/13 rule. No bump drafting!!

Funny story about the 13/13 rule (and I'm pretty sure it's true):

Pole sitter in my group goes out on slicks on a drying track at LRP. Spins on No Name Straight, trying to warm his tires, on the pace lap and taps the left Armco barrier. Gathers himself up and rejoins the grid. Goes on to win the race and then has his license suspended for 13 months (2nd incident). Doh!!

BMWCCA usually combines a drivers school with the race weekend to control the cost. However, it still costs more than SCCA. The plus side is more track time.

[chuck baader]

My car is primarily a SCCA ITA car with the required stickers. I do use the BMWCCA number boards (which I was requested to cover at the SIC), but all other decals are SCCA only required. The other required decals are mounted on 1/16" mag material, available from McMaster, and added before the NASA or BMW club race. Just be sure to tape the leading edge of each decal My car is small...if I had to run all the decals all the time, I would have them overlapping. This weekend, I think I will just put all the NASA decals on the trunk lid....after all, they would be on the car Chuck