October Fastrack

[benspeed]

Maybe you guys won't care since this isn't IT related, but I want to express some great satisfaction with our classing proceedures. I submitted a letter to move my fuel injected, aluminum block stock car into GT2 or worst case GT1.

I received a call today from Stan Clayton with the CRB who had a list of very thoughtful questions about the car and information I needed to provide regarding the motor and the source for other sealed 400hp LS1 engines. He felt that there was a good opportunity the car might be classed in GT next year - no guarantees on competitiveness etc.

Its cool as heck that folks really take a well thought out, well articulated request seriously and care about getting a car classed to compete nationally.

It's Friday and I'm going to go

Cheers!

PS- you don't want my SPO/GT drivel here, tell me another good forum to go post on

[keycom]

Wow, you're right. If I simply sign up for the race and don't show up at the track I get a DNS so I'm counted towards the national participation numbers? NICE. BS indeed.

[/b]

Read closer:
"DNS (Did Not Start) – A driver/car combination that qualified for, but did not start the race."

My bold emphasis.

[JLawton]

PS- you don't want my SPO/GT drivel here, tell me another good forum to go post on
[/b]

Try: www.slowdriverswithbighorsepower.com











Sorry Ben, couldn't resist!! Come back and race with the fast guys!!

[benspeed]

That site's as good as www.moremoneythantalent.com/racing :-)


The Fiero still sits in the garage, the last dyno run didn't make the power. I think I might melt it down into some new fiberglass fenders for the stocker.

[Stan]

Thanks for the nice words, Ben. I know that the GTAC is very interested in your request (very well prepared, BTW), and are prepared to take action on it when the concerns we discussed are addressed.

Jeff, Jeremy does an incredible amount of work in support of our thousands of licensed competitors, but expecting him to fill out your paperwork might just be asking too much at times. Heck, I sent in a homologation package (think VTS, but for open wheel cars) last year....part of it got lost. I sent it in again last month...they never received it. Finally, I asked him to stand by the fax while I sent it yet again. Mission accomplished. I know that mud slinging on the intertubes is more fun, but a little civility and diligence on one's part generally gets more accomplished. In the meantime, take up Andy's offer.

To those of you who think properly accounting for everyone who shows up at a race in "BS", I urge you to take a deep breath and reconsider. I know that you scrape for every thousandth of a second in qualifying. Will you be happy to accept a slot two rows back because T&S rounded to the nearest second? Proper accounting is important to everyone in this hobby, and the changes you refer to are to standardize reporting across the country, and to be able to categorize every racer who shows up, even if they blow a motor on the first lap of practice, Regional or National.

Off to read the "what's wrong with IT" thread...

[lateapex911]

Ben...c'mon...huge torque, mid engine goodness, great brakes, that car should be great at Lime Rock and NHIS...bring it out and give the A boys hell. (myself included, grrrrr, LOL)

[ScotMac]

The 2.2 motors coming into B can't be more torquey than the 2.5 Fieros we race with now. The local one here tells me he gets about 108hp and 190 lb-ft . It sure does leap off the corners. I am glad to see all of the cars moving into B.
[/b]

How the hell does he get that? I assume rwhp? Dynojet?

I have a hooker race header, and the head has been ported to match the header and intake, and the head has been leveled, and the intake has been made direct (removed the stupid rain flap). I just had the car dyno'd (dynojet), and it was 94hp and 137ft-lbs. Stock is around 95hp at the flywheel, so i have probably gained about 12hp (assuming 15% for flywheel vs rear-wheel). I don't have an .040 build. Maybe an 040 would get you to the 108hp (doubt it), but there is no way it is going to net 55ft-lbs of torque!! In fact, i think the car is listed w/ too high of weight (2550). Where the hell did you get those numbers???

[924Guy]

The Fiero still sits in the garage, the last dyno run didn't make the power. I think I might melt it down into some new fiberglass fenders for the stocker.
[/b]

Ya know, Ben, racecars get a lot faster when they actually hit the track... hint hint...

I've seen plenty of crap Fear-Os out there, raced against them, they're slow, but it doesn't stop them coming back... at a certain point you have to say, it's good enough, start turning laps!

A race build is never done, IMO... I'm still building my car going on 9 seasons now!!! Got a lot of trophies in the meantime...

[Gary L]

The 2.2 motors coming into B can't be more torquey than the 2.5 Fieros we race with now. The local one here tells me he gets about 108hp and 190 lb-ft . It sure does leap off the corners. I am glad to see all of the cars moving into B. [/b]

I'm with ScotMac on that torque number... Whoa!!!

Let me guess... would this happen to be the car that set the ITB lap record at Blackhawk Farms last fall?

[ScotMac]

I'm with ScotMac on that torque number... Whoa!!!

Let me guess... would this happen to be the car that set the ITB lap record at Blackhawk Farms last fall?
[/b]

That's true...isn't Wheaton about an hour from Blackhawk Farms? That car didn't just set the track record. I could see a particular track record being soft. It *also* beat all but one of the ITA cars, and i believe it was a pretty strong field.

I have heard that the right cam on a duke will give about 25-30hp. So, that is about a 30% gain. 30% applied to the torque would be ~180ft-lbs.

However, i don't know if you can talk much either Gary. Aren't those Vee-Ul-Vos atleast 150 hp, w/ similar (or more) torque than a (normal duke-based...ie, NOT 190ft-lbs) Fiero, and the 142 is only 90lbs heavier?

As i said, the (normal duke-based) Fiero probably should have its weight adjusted down 70-80lbs.

[Gary L]

However, i don't know if you can talk much either Gary. Aren't those Vee-Ul-Vos atleast 150 hp, w/ similar (or more) torque than a (normal duke-based...ie, NOT 190ft-lbs) Fiero, and the 142 is only 90lbs heavier? [/b]

Now waitadang minute here! We're supposed to be talking about Fee-Air-O's, not Vee-Ul-Vo's. Anyhow, if you're referring to Volvo rwhp, you're about 25 hp optimistic, give or take a few. And no, I don't believe a 10/10th's Volvo build will even beat your 137 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels... keep in mind, they were only about 130 hp and 130 tq at the flywheel as delivered, and those numbers were produced under the older (pre-1973 or so) SAE test regimen, so they were optimistic by at least 5%. And besides, in addition to the 90 lbs, you forgot some things about the venerable ITB benchmark... like the pickup-truck rear suspension, the frontal area that's about half again that of your Fiero, the barn door aerodynamic shape, the much higher CG, the 1960's analog fuel injection computer, etc., etc. It does have better brakes and 50/50 weight distritbution is easily attainable. Equal corner weights... not so much. Why did they have to put a 35 pound battery in the extreme reaches of the LF corner????

As i said, the (normal duke-based) Fiero probably should have its weight adjusted down 70-80lbs. [/b]

The question is... could you actually make 2470 w/driver? Legally?

[ScotMac]

Anyhow, if you're referring to Volvo rwhp, you're about 25 hp optimistic, give or take a few. And no, I don't believe a 10/10th's Volvo build will even beat your 137 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels... keep in mind, they were only about 130 hp and 130 tq at the flywheel as delivered, ...

It does have better brakes and 50/50 weight distritbution is easily attainable. Equal corner weights... not so much. Why did they have to put a 35 pound battery in the extreme reaches of the LF corner????
[/b]

130 and 130...hmmm seems like more when they go by me on the straights.

You sound like me, in terms of the brakes. The only reason my car has actually *won* anything is because of the brakes. Was able to complete a twelve hour w/out replacing pads! ;-)

The question is... could you actually make 2470 w/driver? Legally?
[/b]

Yep, that is a valid question. I am actually about 50lbs overweight right now. But i haven't looked at the car and the rules enough to know how much more i can take off. Hopefully i take it off the rear end of the car. Someone else was talking about the polar moment of the mr2's...well they should try a Fiero. I have spun it at every track i have been to soo far. Driving it in the rain w/ slicks on is REALLY an interesting experience.

[shwah]

Yeah the same car that was at BHF last fall (edit - with any luck we can make that record a moot point in October, we were .1s off that time in July, and at this point are probably not the fastest B VW running here). I don't know any detail on the numbers, they just tossed them out in a conversation telling me how good that car was for Road America, and wondering how we can even get around the corners with our tall VWs.

There may well have been some embellishment in those statements, but I can tell you that he was wayyyy faster than the rest of us down the straight.

[ScotMac]

There may well have been some embellishment in those statements, but I can tell you that he was wayyyy faster than the rest of us down the straight.
[/b]

Hmmm...i am about the same as the rabbits on the straights, and much slower than the Volvo's and 2002's. Wonder what he did to get the car to be that fast? I am not saying he is illegal, but can anyone think of something that would legally make his car that much faster than mine?

[shwah]

Oh I am not prepared to question legality of the car. That BHF record was set in perfect fast conditions, and I am not totally surprised that are car with 40% more displacement using a 'truck' motor makes a bunch more torque than I do.

I just don't know enough about that animal to form an opinion one way or another.

If he shows up again I will try to ask some questions about what the tricks for that motor are.

[ScotMac]

Oh I am not prepared to question legality of the car. That BHF record was set in perfect fast conditions, and I am not totally surprised that are car with 40% more displacement using a 'truck' motor makes a bunch more torque than I do.

I just don't know enough about that animal to form an opinion one way or another.

If he shows up again I will try to ask some questions about what the tricks for that motor are.
[/b]

But he also beat all but one of the ITA cars, and the ITA cars had the same conditions he had.

Thanks for offering to do a little reconnaissance, Chris. And don't be afraid to peek into the engine bay, take off the air cleaner and peek down the intake, take off the head and measure the cylinders, do a compression check, listen to the cam durations, ...

[1stGenBoy]

Oh I am not prepared to question legality of the car. That BHF record was set in perfect fast conditions, and I am not totally surprised that are car with 40% more displacement using a 'truck' motor makes a bunch more torque than I do.

I just don't know enough about that animal to form an opinion one way or another.

If he shows up again I will try to ask some questions about what the tricks for that motor are.
[/b]

I'm not sure if you will see that car again this year ( we are talking about the yellow one right?)
I tried to file a protest on that car on Sat morning of the Kettle race at RA but was asked by the stewards to not continue on with the protest due to mitigating circumstances of the driver. I was told that he would finish last in his class on both days just to get his two finishes for his license. I heard he stuffed it into the wall pretty good on Sun. I was not there on Sun so I cannot attest to that.

[planet6racing]

He did stuff it good into the wall (at 12 at Road America). I believe he was OK. But, you're right, we probably won't see that car again this year.

[Knestis]

...I tried to file a protest on that car on Sat morning of the Kettle race at RA but was asked by the stewards to not continue on with the protest due to mitigating circumstances of the driver. ...
[/b]

Every time I hear about this kind of crap, I get more irritated at our system. It reminds me of when I taught school and we didn't go to the the police when actual laws were broken in the building. It's counter-productive to "take care of things" like this. Grrr.

K

[tnord]

Every time I hear about this kind of crap, I get more irritated at our system. It reminds me of when I taught school and we didn't go to the the police when actual laws were broken in the building. It's counter-productive to "take care of things" like this. Grrr.

K
[/b]