Best first IT car?

[charrbq]

All right, Tim. I was waiting for you to gloat before I defended myself. Next time, buddy...I'll remove the lard in my ass, the sand in my shoes, and the egg under the accelerator!!! Seriously, I've got a myriad of excuses, but the fact is, you had us all covered. You did a great job of driving and deserved the wins. I learned that I will no longer race in the south between Memorial Day and the ARRC, regardless of where the race is or who's there. I was sick going to the race and haven't gotten any better...my fault...the heat just made things worse.
I did really enjoy racing you for the brief moments that I had before either the car or I crapped out. I learned some really good lessons, and I did spot a couple of your weak spots that I would've liked to capatalized on, although they probably would've done me no good.
One thing I learned. When a production car decided he wants to use you to pad his already sumptuous lead and get into the middle of another class's race, he needs to be persuaded to do elsewise in the future. That guy cost me any chance I had of staying with you, and I was not proud of him.

I digress. You won, and you should be proud. I am for you. However, there will be another day...another COOLER day!

[fiat124girl]

ITS eh Jen?

i've been wanting to do an ITS 99+ miata, but never committed in part because there's nobody to race with in ITS around here.

that seems to be changing as a few ITS cars have popped up.
[/b]

Yeah, we will still run ITA and AS and maybe even get the Fiat back out for ITC.

We just stumbled into the ITS car, it is Erica's 1998, she recently got hit in the drivers side by a Ford Truck so the insurance company totaled it but it is savable as a race car.

It is almost a shame to turn E's into a race car but it was either that or our street Mustang because Jude likes to build a car every winter.

All of our cars, with the exception of the Fiat, should be running next year.

I say buy the RX-7, they are reliable and fun. Plan on keeping it for a year or two until you get your car control then move to something faster.

[thedemoguy]

I'll save you a lot of trouble...Go with the VW, there very reliable, you can get parts cheap, there will be a lot of VW guys at every track you go to, and FWD is the best car to start racing with...

The best thing is, I'll sell you a very well built "VW Rabbit you can run in ITC or ITB" and have the confidence of knowing your running the best of every thing right from the start so you can work on your driving skills, not your car.

All for the low, low price of $4000 Cash

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s...demoguy/r6.jpg


Bill

[email protected]

[Knestis]

Capt. Contrary back for your enjoyment...

I'd recommend that any new driver set free the whole "move to something faster" mindset. As long as one has got it in one's head that it's all about the car, they are neglecting the most important factor - the driver.

I'd also caution someone against committing to the Rabbit. They are getting thin on the ground and spares are going to increasingly be a problem. Any time you see "restored" versions of something starting to sell for way more than the originals did, it's an indicator.

K

[JLawton]

"VW Rabbit you can run in ITC or ITB" [/b]

How do you run it in B or C ??

[thedemoguy]

Change the engine...

[Knestis]

Hey, look! Another person to write a letter the next time someone proposes getting rid of the rule that makes that illegal! Yay!!

K

[JLawton]

And Kirk takes the high road..................

[thedemoguy]

If a rabbit came with a 1.6 or a 1.8 what would keep you from putting the 1.8 in the car and running ITB ?
How would that be against the rules ?
The car is set-up as a ITC car, but why not make it a ITB car ?

Enlighten me if you would.

I'd also caution someone against committing to the Rabbit. They are getting thin on the ground and spares are going to increasingly be a problem.[/b]

Not true, I can buy every part on that car new from "Euclid foreign motors" in Cleveland Ohio, and there's got to be a VW part's place near him.

[Greg Amy]

If a rabbit came with a 1.6 or a 1.8 what would keep you from putting the 1.8 in the car and running ITB ?
How would that be against the rules ?[/b]

Two things:

1) ITCS 9.1.3.C: "The Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) shall correspond with the automobile classified, and will determine the model and type for competition purposes. A minimum of two (2) VIN plates and/or stampings is required."

2) 5th digit of the VIN determines which engine the chassis was originally produced with:
http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/VW_VIN.shtml

Nothing in the ITCS allows engine swaps in order to move a chassis to a different class; if the engine installed does not match the VIN, the car is illegal.

I don't agree with the rule, but that's why it's illegal. - GA

[thedemoguy]

OK, thanks

I'll sell you a nice ITC Rabbit for $3995 ready to race next weekend....

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s...demoguy/r4.jpg

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s...emoguy/r10.jpg

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s...demoguy/r5.jpg

[iambhooper]

Nothing in the ITCS allows engine swaps in order to move a chassis to a different class; if the engine installed does not match the VIN, the car is illegal.

I don't agree with the rule, but that's why it's illegal. - GA
[/b]

Yes this rule does suck. It would be so much easier for me to put a FI motor and harness into my Honda and Race ITB, than sell my car... hope I get enough out of it... and buy one in another class.

And yes... the oly difference between the CRX SI and DX were the FI motor and the later SI came with a sunroof. Other than that, only mild cosmetics.

hoop

[Knestis]

The ITAC is tired of me submitting requests to get this changed. Tag - someone else is it.

K

[Andy Bettencourt]

And yes... the oly difference between the CRX SI and DX were the FI motor and the later SI came with a sunroof. Other than that, only mild cosmetics.

hoop [/b]

So if this rule were to disappear, you would be able to 'create' an Si CRX out of a DX CRX that had no sunroof. A model that doesn't exist that would be preferable to the one that does... :bleh:

[Greg Amy]

So if this rule were to disappear, you would be able to 'create' an Si CRX out of a DX CRX that had no sunroof. [/b]

And the functional difference between this and properly stapling a sunroof cover on the Si would be...?

[Andy Bettencourt]

And the functional difference between this and properly stapling a sunroof cover on the Si would be...?
[/b]

Perceived or actual?

In practical application we know there is little difference. But we all want to start with a non-roof car. What you have created is the 'neccessity' to create a model. Differing opinions exist on whether or not this is good for the class.

[merc5000]

hey all...

new to these boards though i have been lurking for a while. the quality and the politeness of the posts here are a welcome addition to my internet experience. really cool that everyone plays nice here.

like shannon, i'm excited about getting started in IT racing next season. You guys have really helped me thing thru the rent vs. buy decision for new races. I had been looking at hondas/neons/ etc. Now I'm more serious about rental (thanks GregAmy, conover et al)

Here's my main concern: I'm in the D.C. region of the SCCA (of which i'm a member and a new volunteer at our main track Summit Point), and from hanging around the track and in checking online, i dont see many (if any?) rent a race car vendors. I did talk to rent-a-race-car.net but theyre 4+ hours away and not a practical option. Am i missing something? Yes, I want to run the numbers on IT rental, but how do i really get started?

Many thanks in advance,

Bill

[shwah]

The way I read the rule, installing a non-sunroof roof skin is legal anyhow, so how again would it create a new allowance? I don't much care about percieved advantage, only actual advantage that cannot be acheived within the current rule.

[Knestis]

So if this rule were to disappear, you would be able to 'create' an Si CRX out of a DX CRX that had no sunroof. A model that doesn't exist that would be preferable to the one that does... :bleh:
[/b]

Sorry - a non issue. Still. We can whiz a top off of a DX right now and weld it on. Same result. This is the most ironical of the silliness: We can change every common body part separately (fender, hood, floor, suspension bracket, inner fender, A-pillar - every freakin' one of 'em) but can't transplant them as an assembly (the whole shell). Note here that I am NOT talking about using a part that's unique to an Si on a DX, or vice-versa so don't go whipping out suggestions that someone can gain an advantage.

merc5000 - I tend to think that the best route to take rental-wise, is to set up a season-long plan with one provider. In some cases, for example, it would be cheaper for you to travel without the car, than for the team to transport it...

We're working on plans for Conover Motorsports to manage my Golf for a bigger rental commitment for the 2008 season and they'll likely have other options available, too. Email me at kirk(dot)knestis(at)evaluand(dot)com if you want to set up a time to talk, or give Conover a call - http://www.raceconver.com

K

[Greg Amy]

Perceived or actual?[/b]

Well, I sincerely hope we're trying to regulate reality, and not perception...the latter is impossible.

Bill, I'm guessing there is a TON of folks that rent out Spec Miatas down in the DC area. King Rat Motorsports (http://www.kingratmotorsports.com/) and Meathead Racing (http://www.meatheadracing.com/) come immediately to mind. You could also contact Flatout Motorsports up here in MA (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com/) and see if their schedule is gonna bring 'em down that way any time soon.

Though you may not wish to drive Spec Miata, I'm guessing you might be able to work up a deal with them to rent their car for ITA, and possibly at a good rate since the car(s) may be there anyway for the SM races...

Other than Miatas, Conover Motorsports is the only people that spring to mind that have consistent rentals... - GA