Best first IT car?

[Shannon1530]

I am looking to get into IT racing next year. I have been looking at a 79 RX7 and and 85 GTI. I have heard the pros and the cons for using either of these cars. What do you guys/gals think?

What is the best car for a first time racer?

I have heard that parts for the 1st gen RX7's are starting to get rare, and the same is starting to happen with the VW's. I thought about a Miata, but some guys are spending some serious money to get their miata's to go fast. I want something I can race, have some fun, and not spend my kids college fund.

Please advise....and thanks.

[Greg Amy]

What is the best car for a first time racer? [/b]

A rented one.

[flaboy]

I agree with Greg. You need to see if you are going to be able to afford racing and if it's really what you want. The kind of car is up to you.I would rent both cars you are looking at several times and see which one you prefer.

But i would rent something to find out if you like it.


Tim

[BlueStreak]

Regarding your first road race car, make sure you follow the "somebody else" rules:
#1 - make sure "somebody else" built it
#2 - make sure you don't mind watching "somebody else" (it might not be your fault) push it off a cliff 15 seconds into your road racing career
#3 - make sure "somebody else" might want to buy the car or whatever is left when you are through with it (to ensure you recover SOMETHING in the event you have to part with the car in the future)

Don't anguish over the expense of the car too much. The one time up front expense of the vehicle purchase is the least expensive part of racing.

One other thing...If lots of guys who have been there and done that tell you renting is the smart way to start, give renting serious consideration.


BTW - Renting is a smart way to start.

[mcgyverit]

Renting is a good idea, maybe get a rental for a PDX type thing might be cheaper since it isnt door to door so to speak.

that being said, between the 2 that you listed reliability and parts availability would be key for me. I have driven an RX7 and they are a blast for handling and driving and there are plenty of go fast stuff done for them. I have no experience with the GTI other than chasing them down on the track, so my guess is they are pretty good as well.

the problem with the miata (like there is one) is popularity=higher initial cost. if i had to do it over again i would definately look at an ITA Miata.

How familiar are you with both models? Do you like fwd or rwd cars?

[Shannon1530]

I found a running 90 miata here in town for $900. If I were to take the $3500 I had set aside for a "prepared car" and buy the miata...could I get it on the track for the other $2400?

[cherokee]

An already built, RELIABLE car. At your school you will be so busy you will have a hard time finding the time to put gas in the car.

Pass on the Miata and buy a built car that has a good history. There are plenty of people on this board that can help you out in looking at a car no matter where it is in the country. I bought my first car for $4000 and did NOTHING to it for the first two years other then put tires on it and change the oil. I did not even change the pads.

[RSTPerformance]

Depends if you can work on the car yourself or not....

For me:

I would get a VW simply because I know how a VW/Audi works and can/would be able to work on it to fix it when it does break. I know absolutely nothing about the RX-7 thus I would keep away from it.

I do however like the RWD over FWD, but the FWD might be a safer easier car to get your feet wet in. I think FWD is as hard as RWD to go fast, but at moderate speeds and in the wet FWD is definatly easier to drive and more forgiving when you make a mistake.

The miata- In the long run probably cheeper to maintain and race than both the VW or the RX-7 but it will certainly cost you more to build in the begining to get it up to speed as compaired to buying one of the several VW or RX7 for sale that are well sorted.

Renting:

That is a tough call. While I think that it would be fun to run a well built and preped car it can cost you over $1,000 for the weekend, and lets face it... If your in the best prepped miata or a VW you are not going to go any faster on your first time on the track. It is like buying brand new tires for your first event, sorta pointless. For me taking that $1000 and investing it into a car you at least hopefully have something at the end of the weekend to take home. However if you have the money, then absolutely rent a car over buying/building and racing a new/used car.

Raymond "From the empty wallet side" Blethen

[gran racing]

Save yourself a TON of time / heartburn and buy a built racecar. The best racecar for a first time driver is one that he/she can afford to race, will be reliable and allow for the most seat time.

[BlueStreak]

^

Oh yeah, don't forget there is a great book out there on how to "Go Ahead - Take the Wheel". If I could just remember the name of it........I think it's in bold green text just above this post!

[Shannon1530]

I am able to work on my own cars...and I really enjoy it....but I have also heard that for the first car...buy one already prepared..then build one later on once you know more about what you want to get into.

As far as renting...I am not a fan. That is one reason I want to get a car now...I can go over it...repair/replace/upgrade anything that needs it...then shake the car down on Solo II thru the winter while I wait on the driver schools early next year. I already have plans to attend...and I am taking two guys with me to prep the car so I can focus on the school.

[Shannon1530]

BlueStreak...I just bought the book!!! Thanks for the advice!

[tnord]

I found a running 90 miata here in town for $900. If I were to take the $3500 I had set aside for a "prepared car" and buy the miata...could I get it on the track for the other $2400?
[/b]

i'm going to make a few assumptions based on this statement which may be wrong. please don't be insulted if they are. just trying to help here.

if you say you have $3500 set aside to buy a 'prepared car' that tells me a few things;

1) if you're looking at an RX-7 that tells me at least ITA, maybe ITS. you're only going to buy a junker or someone elses failed project. bad idea unless you REALLY know what you're doing/looking for.

2) a $3500 purchasing budget tells me you should be in either ITC or ITB. the reason i say this is that WAY too many people end up buying cars they can't afford to race. going faster costs more money to keep the car running properly. you'll spend more in tires, brakes, consumables like wheel bearings, ball joints, etc the farther up the speed pyramid you go. after a couple years of struggling they get frustrated, sell the car at a loss, and leave racing altogether. this is not what we want to see.

3) you really need to be buying a built car and not building one. $3500 will get y ou a decent donor, cage, and wheels/tires. i know you said you enjoy working on stuff, but don't worry, there's ALWAYS work to be done. i haven't had a thing break in almost 2 years on mine and i always have work to do between every event.



i also think it's really important for someones first venture into racing to get a common, well established car. the commonality of parts, known setups, and friends you'll meet at the track that can help you are a HUGE benefit most overlook when looking to get into racing. an ITB CRX i think is probably the best choice for you, not sure about ITC, but my gut tells me an old civic is a good choice. the ITB Porsche 924 may be the coolest choice, but probably not the best option for someone just getting started, or the cheapest.

if you REALLY have to get into ITA, wait until you can save up the cash to buy a nice car to get you going. i built my first one and it took me 2yrs and about $10,000 before it wasn't a huge pile of crap. you can buy a nice ITA car for about $7500, whereas a nice ITB car may only cost you $5000.

good luck.

[KelleyHux]

Shannon1530 ...

You don't mention where in the country you are. That might be helpful while looking for advice.

In certain areas of the country, some models are more popular than others. That may help you find someone who knows about your chosen car and/or it may give you someone who can help you work on it and/or find someone who can help you out at the track.

For example, if you live in the St. Louis metroplex, and your options are RX7 or VW - I'd suggest VW. You've got one of the best VW pilots in the country in your neighborhood, and he builds a good race car too. Chris Albin is generally very helpful and he can probably answer a ton of questions about VWs for you.

Just my thoughts,
Kelley Huxtable
(not a racer, just a worker)
DMVR
"PLAY SAFE"

PS - You might also consider signing your name to your posts occasionally.

[Shannon1530]

KellyHux - I am located in the Tampa Bay Area.

tnord - I am not insulted at all. You just about hit the nail on the head. I am really just a beginner. I am not interested in winning just yet...just looking to get my license and enjoy some seat time while learning the basics. Once I understand more about the sport, then I will consider spending more money to go fast.

One of the reasons that I was looking at an RX7 was I found a car with cage, fuel cell, front suspension, and all the parts to complete the car (project started, currently in storage) plus a ton of spares for $1600. This car is staight with no rust. Basically, just requires assembly. That is the only reason I would consider ITA/IT7 car.

Thanks again for the advice...

[mattbatson]

I'm a guy on a real tight budget too...
I built my car, which was not a common car by any stretch (ITB suzuki swift)....

After all was said and done, I had a mid-packer that cost me about 8K...

Oh, and the car was free from my dad's backyard (blown engine), and the motor/tranny was a junkyard special for 200 smackers.

8 grand.

For about 3 grand less I could have had a built car, that was faster, and more common/easier parts source.

I had to spend another 3500 to get the motor and suspension up to snuff, so that I could start running up front.

So, about 11.5 grand for a nearly front running ITB car....

Do the math. Buy a car for pennies on the dollar. Save yourself the three or four months of sweat and blood in the garage building up a track car....

There are so many race cars for sale on here at rock bottom prices...you would be crazy to build on your own.

Remember, the wise man learns from the mistakes of others.

Buy a built car, put it on your credit card if you have to, spend a weekend bleeding the brakes, alignment, changing the oil...then go to drivers school!

[tnord]

well, i'm sure for what you're getting $1600 is a good price, but i'd still be wary of what it will take to get it on track. i'd imagine you'll easily break your $3400 budget.

it's easy to get excited about such things. i find myself giving 30min of serious consideration to building a 2nd car all the time, but talk myself out of it. at this point, i know better. just be mindful when you're presented with such opportunities.

[ITS5GB]

PM me if you want a real life IT7 story. I bought a "project" car for $1800 that "had all of the parts". $6000 and 2 years later I sold it for $3000 and it still wasn't fully sorted. Do your self a huge favor and buy one that is ready to go. You'll never believe how much all of the "incidentals" cost in both time and money.

[Knestis]

We all have to learn the hard way. There's no talking sense to someone once they get a whiff of the race car crack pipe.

Harsh reality - if you can't afford to rent a car, you can't afford to build/buy, prepare, transport, and race a car prepared to the same level.

There's another credo that you can absolutely bank on: "Competitive, reliable, or affordable - pick two." You sound like you're willing to set free the foremost but that's STILL an investment of 3-4x what you describe as your budget. And that's just for the car.

Now, if you want to WORK on a car rather than RACE a car, you could go the nickel-and-dime-to-death route but the better answer would be to work on some other sucker's race car, crewing while they spend their money. If you don't think that's an attractive option, then the test worked to chase out the fact that you DO want to race, meaning that you would be money ahead to rethink your plan.

K

[dickita15]

As to the question of VW or Rx7 my question is which group of guys at your local tracks would you rather hang out with. These are the guys you will need to ask questions of and borrow parts from during a weekend. go to the track. Make friends. Race what your friends race. The support system will make all the difference.