Best first IT car?

[merc5000]

Well, I sincerely hope we're trying to regulate reality, and not perception...the latter is impossible.

Bill, I'm guessing there is a TON of folks that rent out Spec Miatas down in the DC area. King Rat Motorsports (http://www.kingratmotorsports.com/) and Meathead Racing (http://www.meatheadracing.com/) come immediately to mind. You could also contact Flatout Motorsports up here in MA (http://www.flatout-motorsports.com/) and see if their schedule is gonna bring 'em down that way any time soon.

Though you may not wish to drive Spec Miata, I'm guessing you might be able to work up a deal with them to rent their car for ITA, and possibly at a good rate since the car(s) may be there anyway for the SM races...

Other than Miatas, Conover Motorsports is the only people that spring to mind that have consistent rentals... - GA
[/b]

GA,

thanks for this... u're right! i see King Rat and Meathead at Summit Point all the time, and yes, u're right, i'm not looking to do SM right now. Good idea to contact them. Can't hurt?

One other benefit (it seems) of renting is that it makes it a lot easier to try different IT classes right? I can sample so to speak. :-) I mean if I buy an ITA car, i'm not gonna run in the ITR stuff any time soon, am I?

[gran racing]

I mean if I buy an ITA car, i'm not gonna run in the ITR stuff any time soon, am I?[/b]

Only if you were to buy an NX2000.

[fomad]

Shannon, I'm in the Tampa Bay area, I'm trying to build up an '85 supra to ITS qualifications. Let me know if you need manpower, I'm smart like horse - strong like doctor..... I'm always available to bounce stuff off of...

[iambhooper]

It's extremely easy to change the body panel's on a Fiero. I can "create" a non sunroof by taking a roof off of any fiero ever made... maybe even a 4cyl car, and installing it on any sunroof car... even a v-6 car running in ITA in a matter of hour's... and no one would know any better.

In fact, did you know that the only difference between a '87 Fiero SE 4cyl and V6 is the motor and tranny?

But I guess that's another Monster for another day

hoop

[thedemoguy]

I don't agree with the rental point of view... How much is it to rent a race car for the season ?
If your starting out in road racing, in my mind your better off starting off at the bottom of the ladder or at lest in ITC, then work your way up to the faster classes...

In the beginning the car isn't the real issue or it's not as important as you would think, the driver is the point of focus, you need to develop good race craft, hone your driving skills and when you have gotten all the car will give and you need more, then move to a faster class...

That's the reason I think a VW ITC is the best way to go for a new guy or an experienced guy that doesn't have time to work on the car all the time....Reliability, Reliability, Reliability...

And for less then $5000 the car is your car... and if you change to a faster class you have something to sell, you may not get all your money back, but you will get money back.

Rent and you have nothing for your investment...

Just my opinion nothing more.

[merc5000]

thanks demo guy....

just as i was setting in on a plan of action, u go and make me re-think it! ha! :P

my only thing was with renting is that u're not tied to a specific car, so i could try a different class out, even mid-season right if i so chose. also, i'm concerned about space right now at my place. i live in a fairly tight neighborhood should i need space for a trailer and all. would be difficult. stil mulling it all over. i really just wanna get ***ing started! the sooner i get going, the sooner i can make mistakes, and start progressing.

thanks!

[Knestis]

...And for less then $5000 the car is your car... and if you change to a faster class you have something to sell, you may not get all your money back, but you will get money back. ...[/b]

And for less than $5000 you get a car. And only a car. Expect to spend (literally) thousands on misc stuff that you don't already own, unless you happen to have a trailer, tow vehicle, tools, jack, fuel jugs, spare wheels and other parts, and all of the other tidbits. And even if you buy a pretty good already-prepared car, there are almost always surprises that need fixing.

If you have ever decided to do a job on your own street car and made three trips to Autozone, at $40 a pop, you are just beginning to understand this game. I remember putting a $70 oil cooler on my first race car - and spending $200 to get the job done, by the time I bought hoses, a flange, isolation mounts, hardware, etc., etc., etc.

Look - I own a race car so I'm not following my own best advice but I also rent it out a bunch of times each year to subsidize my own participation. That's the choice I've made.

For consideration, I amortized the cost to build and maintain the Golf over a sensible predicted life (3 years) and ended up at something in the neighborhood of $300 per track hour - not including direct costs of fuel, tires, entry fees, and consumables.

Just for giggles, it would be interesting for folks with opinions on this subject to share how many years they've been racing and how many race cars they have owned.

The exception to this rule continues to be if you REALLY like to work on cars - then it makes sense to make the commitment. And by this, I mean "would rather work on them than race them." That's a deal-maker right there.

K

[Z3_GoCar]

GA,

thanks for this... u're right! i see King Rat and Meathead at Summit Point all the time, and yes, u're right, i'm not looking to do SM right now. Good idea to contact them. Can't hurt?

One other benefit (it seems) of renting is that it makes it a lot easier to try different IT classes right? I can sample so to speak. :-) I mean if I buy an ITA car, i'm not gonna run in the ITR stuff any time soon, am I?
[/b]

You never know. I rented an ITB 2002 for my school, and am running ITE and next season ITR. I bought because I like working on my car, it's my hobbie, I also like hitching up the trailer and towing. Sure I need more tools wish I had a welder, air compressors for my air tools and ect. I removed and reinstalled the rear sub-frame with hand tools, an aluminum racing jack, and a 2x4. I looked at running a Spec Miata in ITA, but for the money I got a car that I wanted. I've been in close racing classes having run a medium senior spec class kart, that's not something I'd want to do in a fendered car, I don't like body work. Rental is the only way to go for school, unless you can put togeather a pit crew. Best way to find a rental car is to ask around. Buying vs renting only you can answer that.

James

[ScotMac]

If someone is getting into racing, they almost assuredly have tools, a floor jack, and probably some type of tow vehicle. Even if they need to get a tow vehicle, you can get something cheap off of craigslist for under $1k. I got a 95 van for $800, and it has already done 5000 miles w/out a single problem. Obviously you need to check it out, but deals can be had.

Yes, race tires are not cheap...but if you get the right ones they will last for a bit...and, especially starting out, you don't need new tires every other race.

Yes, that enclosed, gooseneck, air conditioned, ... trailer can easily run you $20k. But you can also get an open used one off a craigslist for cheap. In fact, often trailers are packaged w/ the race car sale, to sweeten the deal.

Hey, i'm not saying i'm cheap, but...ok i'm cheap!

[JLawton]

I started with my street car doing track days. Over a three year period I upgraded springs, shocks, sway bars and a few other minor things. I then decided to make the jump in to wheel to wheel. I really only needed to add the safety items. My tow vehicle became my daily driver, I bought an $1,800 trailer and used fully treaded R compound tires that lasted a whole season. At the time I couldn't afford the $5K to buy. Yes, I got my butt kicked by driving an under developed car, but I was out there racing!!! I had several years where I ran 6-8 events and spent less than $5K per season. So spending $xxx on a rental didn't make sense to me. Plus, (and I've had this discussion before) if I balled up the rental car, I would have ahd to take out a loan to pay for it...........End of racing for years (having not only to pay for the balled up car, but to save for another car.........

So, I think building up a street car/daily driver is another option if you're not rolling in the cash like I was in my younger years. (hmmm, not like I'm rolling in it now, it's just my priorities have gotten more whacked!! )


The most important thing IS TO GET OUT THERE!! Don't stand around watching, go ahead, grab the wheel!!


Wait............I think there's a book out there that covers all of this..................

[thedemoguy]

JLawton

The most important thing IS TO GET OUT THERE!! Don't stand around watching, go ahead, grab the wheel!!
[/b]

That's it right there, don't think about it just do it... what ever way you can, just get on track and get seat time, racing is not just a pastime but a way of life, and a GREAT way of life it is... :026:

My family and I have experienced the best memories of all at the race track.

[ddewhurst]

***My family and I have experienced the best memories of all at the race track.***

Racing is PEOPLE.

***Just my opinion nothing more.***

Bill, I didn't read all the posts. Have you ever raced anything in your life or driven anything competitive to get a feel at tracks day or such? Being that you have family & IF you & family can throw away the $5,000.00 in case of a major dissaster with the car your opinion in my mind is valid. If you find in a hurry that wheel to wheel racing is not for you the car may still be sold to recover some or all the $5,000.00. If you get started & feel iffy about driving DON'T give up to soon. Give it some time for your mind & body to adjust to this NEW thing they are doing. That's easy for me to say, BUT, I'll dam well tell you that if I had to parchute out of an airplane to save my a$$ I can tell you I wouldn't attempt to tell or train my mind & body that was a good thing to do on a normal/regular basis.

Have Fun

[merc5000]

[quote]
***My family and I have experienced the best memories of all at the race track.***

Racing is PEOPLE.

***Just my opinion nothing more.***

Bill, I didn't read all the posts. Have you ever raced anything in your life or driven anything competitive to get a feel at tracks day or such? Being that you have family & IF you & family can throw away the $5,000.00 in case of a major dissaster with the car your opinion in my mind is valid. If you find in a hurry that wheel to wheel racing is not for you the car may still be sold to recover some or all the $5,000.00. If you get started & feel iffy about driving DON'T give up to soon. Give it some time for your mind & body to adjust to this NEW thing they are doing. That's easy for me to say, BUT, I'll dam well tell you that if I had to parchute out of an airplane to save my a$$ I can tell you I wouldn't attempt to tell or train my mind & body that was a good thing to do on a normal/regular basis.

Have Fun

yeah, when i was younger i ran my v8 camaro in fla... even at sebring, but that was lonnnggggg time ago. So after an extended hiatus, i bought a sports car, safety equipment, did some track events, then realized how much i love this stuff. So i went to a good accredited racing school, practice sessions, volunteered as track worker... and have putting together a plan for next year. I think to answer your question, Yes i can "throw away" a little money and Yes i realize that i'll suck for a while. Really, thats fine with me, and its similar to every other pursuit in life isnt it? I mean when i started my own business, it was one brick at at time, so to speak. i dont know of a way to get to the front of the line in life. So let me start sucking now! lol.

Bill

[thedemoguy]

ddewhurst
Not trying to be disrespectful but you should read the post from the beginning.

[ddewhurst]

SO thedemoguy, I got some posts & names screwed up. :026: Enjoy a & my point still stands for anyone re-doing or doing for the first time.

***If you get started & feel iffy about driving DON'T give up to soon. Give it some time for your mind & body to adjust to this NEW thing they are doing. ***

[thedemoguy]