Data aquisition

[shwah]

Last week I had a chance to spend the day at Gingerman with some friends that were performing a comparison test for their auto magazine (motivemag.com). We spent the day alternating short (5-7 lap)sessions in 4 cars (short sessions as they were street cars). They recently made a decision to utilize V-box hardware to measure performance during their vehicle tests, and since they had the track for the day - Vbox came out and provided training / tech support for the day.

Anyhow - I was really impressed with what this system could do, even in a basic configuration with no external inputs. The ability to review laps, compare laps from the same or different sessions was very usefull. It was easy to see the differences between individual drivers, and how each one was actually acheiving often similar laps in very different ways.

Basically I was impressed enough that I may even move this peice of equipment ahead of the radio system on my priority list. My question is - does anyone here have experience with this particular system that can offer commentary on it's usefulness in week in week out racing? Or even better has anyone here used this system, AND used other systems and can offer some insight to the advantages/disadvantages of either?

thanks

[924Guy]

Yes, you absolutely should put a data system in front of a radio on the priority list. No other single item, IMO, will provide as much bang for the buck to make you faster, and in such a way that will transfer easily to any car you drive (both the technique learned, and the system itself).

GPS-based systems seem to be the better way to go these days, due to easier installation.

You should consider reviewing my data acq. presentation - it's linked off the main Waterford Hills page (www.waterfordhills.com) - to see some more detail and options (though you've already had a good exposure, sounds like).

Radios are nice, I have them too, but they really don't make you faster.

[shwah]

The reason radios are on my list is lost races due to missing the start. On a restart at Road America the field went green as I exited 14 at the back of the pack, and we didn't see anything until we crested the hill....ended up getting within 2sec of first in the remaining 5 laps. Even at Blackhawk, I sit low enough that if the wrong type of car is gridded in front of me, I cannot see the flag (low flag station there). So at least in my case I know the lack of radios have cost me wins.

But - I totally agree with you. Data system will help me find the secrets to a track much faster and get my times down where they need to be to be competitive.

I will check out your presentation.

Anyone with hands on experience with this particular system reading this?

[mbuskuhl]

I was looking into this one as well, during my research I found this ...

http://fasttechlimited.com/docs/DriftBox-E...es-and-Eval.pdf

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41846

Mabye it helps.

I have not purchased a data logger yet. I was looking at lap timers and got interested in a GPS system. Other issues with the car have delayed a purchase.

[Knestis]

The advantage of FastTech is that Jeremy can compare multiple options, based on your needs. Other dealers tend to handle just one or a couple options.
K

[jlucas]

Chris, for a dedicated racer, you will get more information in less time with a DL1 system and it will allow you to add inputs. However if your budget doesn't allow that price point, a PerformanceBox is an incredible bang for the buck at 1/2 the cost.

Let me know if you have specific questions (on or off forum) and I'll do my best to answer them.

[planet6racing]

Chris:

Are you going to be at the Kettle? If so, stop by so we can discuss. I'm currently looking at the DAQ systems as well and, being a Test Engineer, maybe I can offer some insight about what I'm looking at and why.

[shwah]

Bill - we plan to be there

Where will you be paddocking?

[planet6racing]

In Shanty Town, of course!

We will be in the North paddock (after the Kohler tunnel, before you go up the hill). Not sure whether we will be on driver's left or right yet, as the heads of Shanty Town have not yet decreed...

[shwah]

We will be up the hill on the right. Will have beer and fire as well, although no soviergn government ala shanty-ville.

[Drew Aldred]

On a restart at Road America the field went green as I exited 14 at the back of the pack, and we didn't see anything until we crested the hill....[/b]

Chris,

With regards to Road America, if you are far back enough, or the field is strung out enough that you can see the leaders crest the hill, here's the solution. When the leaders crest the hill, count to 3 slowly then hit it. Or look for the double yellows at the station to drop (also good to remember on restarts as the field can be waaay strung out) Assume green, until other information presents.

[shwah]

Thanks Drew. All good points. I should have been more aggresive.

What happened is a plug wire came loos at T3 on lap one. I limped around, passing a big wreck at the entrance to the carosel that brought out double yellow. We fixed it easily in hot pit, and drove out to catch the field. Had an issue with two guys not catching the pack in front of me, but the finally did on the last yellow lap. I was watching the yellows at every station from Canada corner to 14, but never saw them drop, and didn't know what lap we may go green (5 yellow laps!) I could not see 14 flags in my mirror up the hill and played it a bit too safe. Had to make up 12 positions to win B, but only got 11 in the ensuing 5 laps.

Anyhow - there are a lot of other good reasons to have a radio, and when we are able we will take that step.

[planet6racing]

Cheaper option (than radios): A raceceiver scanner (tuned to F&C) and an earbud. Should run you about $150 total... You'll know when the green comes out, plus what is going on where and you won't have to wait for your crew to tell you.

[Greg Gauper]

Two potential problems with that Bill:

1) Not all tracks use radios for the corner net. Some tracks use a 'hard-line' system, like Mid-ohio.

2) Some tracks (like Road America) use a repeater, so there is a 1-2 second delay from when the mike is keyed at the source to when a scanner will pick up the transmission.

Watching the flags at station 15 works as well, except they usually only staff that flag station for bigger events where they have enough workers. They usually don't staff the station for regionals.

Regarding radios..I've had very good luck using an old Motorola FMS radio to hear my crew. I only use it to replace the old pit board, and I'm not concerned with trying to talk to my crew. My crew gives me my lap times and race info when I'm on the front straight. I usually don't care what's going on everywhere else. I can pick up the transmission coming out of turn 14 at Road America so there's no problem 'hearing' the green when I'm climbing the hill. Much nicer than trying to pick out a pit board, plus it's safer for the crew since they don't have to go near the pit wall to signal me. Works great at Blackhawk!

The radios didn't cost anything since I already had them. I bought a set of ear buds from radio shack for $10 and modified them to work with standard EAR type earplugs.

Regarding Data Aquisition systems... look into the MaxQData system as another option. Pretty cheap ($300 for the pure GPS based system, around $500-$600 for the unit with built-in accelerometers and spare input channels). Very simple to use. I've learned quite a bit this season since I started using it.

http://www.maxqdata.com/products.htm

[924Guy]

Yeah, I'm running an FRS radio, and was shocked how good the reception was this past weekend at Mid-O - all the way down the backstraight from the pits, etc...

[CU Zcar]

Where would the Traqmate rank amongst some of the more serious DAQ systems?