MR2 in ITB?

[Jake]

After reading reading about:

1. Well written posts about the Z3 (which has a power to weight ratio that I can only dream about)

2. New roll cage rules that would allow MR2's to gain weight without making people build new cages.

3. The new spec weight for 1'st Gen MR2's that I could only achieve if I had my 3yr old drive my car. (is that legal?)

I gotta ask, can we finally move this thing while there are still 1 or 2 being run in the country?

Out of curiosity, what would the process weight be in ITB? Yeah, I know, being mid-engined is like having an extra 50hp, and the ITAC sees no disadvantage of only having 1.6L vs. 2.0L of the top ITB cars, and nobody has ever tried to build a real motor yet (we don't count the multiple guys that put $10,000 in engine development and only got 108hp to the wheels) yadda yadda yadda....

But I gotta ask.

[Z3_GoCar]

I agree, move MR2 down to B please

James

[Andy Bettencourt]

Without my check and balance system I would say 2545 in ITB. As it is a hot topic here, it is a hot topic with the ITAC as well. The group continues to be about 50-50 on the topic.

I think this car exemplifies a tweener that doesn't fit into the established bracketry we have now because the ITA weight is low (and Jake says unattainable at 2270) while the ITB weight would be as much as 200lbs over it's 2350lb curb weight.

[Doc Bro]

B plus weight. Jake misses his epic battles with Dave!!! Throw the guy a bone!! And send the 1st gen RX too.

R

[gran racing]

The MR2 sure is well balanced and can brake unbelievably.

Jake, how would you feel about the car being in ITB at approximately 2,545? I'd be totally cool with it and would be willing to write in a letter with ya.

[Spinnetti]

Well, then what about the Corolla?

Logically that would go too, but I'd need to add 300lbs? good grief!
I suppose I'd just sell it to the drift crowd.

[Jake]

I'd be fine with whatever the "Process weight" comes up with. I'd like take a look at what the subtraction for the 1.6 and the adding for the mid-engine will be however. As a side note - MR2's as great as they are, don't brake or handle any better than Miatters The weight distribution is very close to the Miata and the Miata has a more advanced suspension.

And yea - the AE86 should come with. Spinne - can the AE86 get lighter than the MR2 so it could work in ITA at a light weight?

[924Guy]

That doesn't seem out of place to me, at around 2545# and 108 at the wheels...

[MarcV]

Still waiting for the CRX DX to be moved as well... It should have moved down with the sedan and hatchback.

[Knestis]

In as much as the cage-tube/race-weight cap has been the primary sticking point for this 'tweener (and others), I say run the numbers and make it so! Ditto the others in the same boat.

K

[mattbatson]

As an ITB guy, I say move as many down as you can.
It sounds like there are a few different models currently classed in ITA that dont really compete...

Move em down now with the readjusted weight. Sooner the better.

This isnt pro racing. None of us are pro racers...we arent winning anything here (except bragging rights...which is really kinda worthless).

So, if a mistake is made in the reclassification from A to B, readjust the very next year! Get it close and go with it!

This can only be a good thing for field size, perhaps encouraging guys with uncompetitive ITA cars to get out and race more.

[Joe Harlan]

As an ITB guy, I say move as many down as you can.
It sounds like there are a few different models currently classed in ITA that dont really compete...

Move em down now with the readjusted weight. Sooner the better.

This isnt pro racing. None of us are pro racers...we arent winning anything here (except bragging rights...which is really kinda worthless).

So, if a mistake is made in the reclassification from A to B, readjust the very next year! Get it close and go with it!

This can only be a good thing for field size, perhaps encouraging guys with uncompetitive ITA cars to get out and race more.
[/b]

Other issues to consider....7" wide wheels?

[Andy Bettencourt]

Joe is on the money here. We had two letters that askes us to review a car in A for a lower weight. We did and determined it was a rediulously classed in A and at process weight would be impossible to get to - to the Nth degree. We are talking a 110hp car here. We readjusted its weight and recalculated it for B were it fits nicely. Letters came in asking us to put it back because of the additional investment required to 'redo' the wheel and tire situation.

Be careful what you ask for - you just may get it.

[Knestis]

So what do they want? To keep their 7" wheels in B or leverage that bind into some other consideration? Or to live forever mired in A?

Again, the obligation of the ITAC, the CRB, and the "process" should be to watch out for the overall health of the category. As long as a couple of resistant individuals can block a move that consensus says is likely to be a good thing for the program, we're hobbled. I'm not necessarily saying that this kind of consensus has been achieved here but at some point, doesn't the bigger picture matter more than a couple of people who don't want to buy new wheels?

Or (and I might hate myself in the morning for this) is this another endorsement for the dual-classification solution? I firmly believe that it has downsides but again, if the net is positive, maybe it's worth considering. Perhaps even as a probationary or conditional deal - the DC car will end up in ONE class eventually, where the most entries happen - perhaps in say, three years...?

K

[Jake]

On the MR2 boards not only was there a unanimous consensus that we should move to B even with buying a new set of wheels - but even those who had to build new cages before were behind it.

I'll gladly pose the question again on the MR2 boards to the 8 people who run MR2's across the country (number is shrinking by the minute!)

What would the process B weight really B? Really 300# more?

[Andy Bettencourt]

2545 in ITB I am sure but it will have to run it's course.

K, They wanted to stay in A.

[Spinnetti]

I'd be fine with whatever the "Process weight" comes up with. I'd like take a look at what the subtraction for the 1.6 and the adding for the mid-engine will be however. As a side note - MR2's as great as they are, don't brake or handle any better than Miatters The weight distribution is very close to the Miata and the Miata has a more advanced suspension.

And yea - the AE86 should come with. Spinne - can the AE86 get lighter than the MR2 so it could work in ITA at a light weight?
[/b]

Well, here's the thing... My car is 2030lbs with a full tank of gas IIRC. It can't get any lighter than that either, short of dipping the car and taking the bondo out So, Since I'm already as light as it will go, and I'm still at 108 hp with a solid axle etc, you can see why nobody runs these anymore. I love the car, so I'm still here, but thats the only reason. In the 90's I could run lead pack, but a well set up and driven (and usually cheater ecu at the time) CRX/Integra still would beat me pretty handily (I'm a bit above so-so driver with very good car prep). I had trouble with the better Mazdas too. Interestingly, except for a couple times when I was experimenting (badly) with some setups, MR'2 never gave me any trouble - must be folks got them sorted out since then (at the time, I drove a MR2 on the street).

I haven't run in a long time now, but I'd probably be too fast for B without some reduction, but not much. Even way back, the top B cars ran mid-pack into the A ranks. I just can't imagine going up to 2500lbs.. thats more than it was stock isn't it? I'm probably the last man standing in the Corolla ranks as it was considered obsolete in ITA since 95 or so...

In the end, I guess I'd say its not worth any mods to the car (wheels or weight) to get more competitive. I'm going to do one more hurrah to get it up to the current rules (maybe run next year) and see where I sit. If I can stay out of the hacks in the middle of the pack, I'll keep at it, and if not I guess it will die a natural death in IT and I'll end up using it as a track car until it goes to a drift kiddie..

[mattbatson]

Ok, I see the wheel problem...

How about this? To run in B they have to abide by the wheel situation, and add weight....

But, they can also run in A, just as they do now.

That way, they can run in both classes, depending on how competitive they want to be

would this work? Or is it so taboo to allow one make of car run in two classes....

I would hope SCCA could be a little more flexible in an attempt to increase car counts. This shouldnt piss off any A guys or B guys...right?

[Joe Harlan]

My take is this. For the cost of 2 sets of wheels these guys will now move from the back to the mid to front of the grid. How many times for 800 bucks can you put yourself in that position. The ITAC should not consider this in the choice. I would like to see the clasification happen with a 1 season dual classification so that people could budget the wheel change to ITB. come on guys 800 bucks and your at the pointy end of the grid or at least have a shot at the pointy end of the grid....Besides Kirk is lonely...

[JeffYoung]

Joe, if I had an MR2 that would be the problem for me. In A, at least around here, I would have competition and guys to race with. In B, I would not. Fields are small, very small. Since I don't drive an MR2, I really can't comment, but if I did the difference between running mid pack in a 10 car field versus at the front in a 3-4 car field mighte lead ME (and that's just me) to want to stay in A.