Split Starts

[grjones1]

K,
When two people immediatlely close side by side on the straight at the start and continue that way without trying to maneuver to pass and then move left when the car behind moves left, I may be wrong but I think they're trying to hold back the following car by all means.

I would be the last person to suggest that one, two, or three cars don't have a right to whatever lines or formation they choose, but if they are manuevering with the single purpose of holding off a following competitor, they are blocking. Otherwise we'd have to say there's no such thing as blocking. In that case I can play by those rules also the same way I'm playing by the stupid "split-grid" set up.

G

[JLawton]

it's not jumping over in front of someone just to keep him from going by, that's just plain "blocking". [/b]

If that's the definition of blocking, then I will block the sh*t out of anyone if I'm racing for position. And I would expect nothing less from the guys I race with every week.

Now, if there is a huge difference in speed for some reason (held up by a slower car, putting two wheels off, near spin, etc) and they get a run on me I won't "jump" right in front of them.

[Knestis]

K,
When two people immediatlely close side by side on the straight at the start and continue that way without trying to maneuver to pass and then move left when the car behind moves left, I may be wrong but I think they're trying to hold back the following car by all means. ...

G
[/b]

Or perhaps they were both pedal-down and going the same speed, neither wanting to get out of it and both willing to sacrifice something to not let the other of the pair in front? Nah - couldn't happen.

K

[ggnagy]

The MARRS ITC split starts were an outgrowth of our previous marriage to class of spec cars. I'm not naming names, but it's got a rotary engine.

They were fast in a straight line. They were slow in the corners. Some of the mid-pack drivers used poor judgement and when spoken to regarding pounding ITC cars were dismissive using the "spec classes need to bump" point of view. If they jumped the start or got a jump on you at the start, you never were going to get past them unless they went off or hit someone (and then you only got past them if they didn't collect you on their way to a DNF). The stewards were uninterested in "counseling" the offenders. In short, it was making lemonade 'cause all we got was lemons.
[/b]

Actually it was an outgrowth of a driver of one of those unnamed spec cars with a rotary motor making the split start suggestion to the class admins. There were two groups of the aforementioned cars, the fast group, and the slow group. The slow group just happened to be turning lap times about the same as the front ITC drivers. The slow group drivers wanted to race amongst themselves, but kept getting stuck in the midst of the ITC race.

Lots of classes have idiot drivers, and yes, the unnamed class had its share. One was a driver who qualified much better than he raced, and would hold up the rest of the "slow group" with borderline tactics. ( #$%&^@ unnamed spec cars should not need to hit the #$%&@ brakes before the kink in the chute.) Funny, though, how after the split starts started, there were a few discussions of questionable driving tactics WITHIN the ITC class.

The split starts worked for both groups, simply because they had very different performance characteristics.

ps. working in downtown DC is for suckers. :P

[jjjanos]

G. Robert,

In terms of the specific issue - we should talk in August about the June start. I do not recall moving to the center after I made the immediate move to the center. If I did, my sincere apologies.

I know I never caught you during the race, but during qualifying, I almost gave you a proctology exam in three and ten just before the checker came out.

In terms of the more general issue - I do not think that moving in anticipation of another driver's action is blocking. I also think that any movement in reaction to another driver's action is blocking - i.e. no 1-move rule.

Jeff

Lots of classes have idiot drivers, and yes, the unnamed class had its share. One was a driver who qualified much better than he raced, and would hold up the rest of the "slow group" with borderline tactics. ( #$%&^@ unnamed spec cars should not need to hit the #$%&@ brakes before the kink in the chute.) Funny, though, how after the split starts started, there were a few discussions of questionable driving tactics WITHIN the ITC class. [/b]

My apologies. The unnamed spec class has plenty of excellent drivers.

ps. working in downtown DC is for suckers. :P
[/b]

Yes

[grjones1]

Or perhaps they were both pedal-down and going the same speed, neither wanting to get out of it and both willing to sacrifice something to not let the other of the pair in front? Nah - couldn't happen.

K
[/b]

K,

But when one admits in writing, "I knew you were going to try to come up the middle, so I moved that way immediately," his intention is to block. When I moved left, they both moved left. I don't think they were just racing each other. Let's not ignore the evidence in front of us.

But I'll admit they had a right to any tactics they devise, that's racing. I just don't like people teaming up against one other driver, but that's my problem, and believe me I'll deal with it.

Jeff,

"I know I never caught you during the race, but during qualifying, I almost gave you a proctology exam in three and ten just before the checker came out."

It's a given, I was slow in qualifying owing to a number of factors primary of which was two hours sleep Friday night, but again that's my problem. Apology accepted.

G. Robert

[Mike Spencer]

I have read this thread with great interest. Personally, I have no strong feelings either way on split starts.

What I wanted to add to the discussion was something I read a couple of years ago about "blocking". I'm definitely paraphrasing, but the essence of it was this; If the car behind moves to the inside and the car ahead does likewise, that's racing. If the car behind makes a second move before the corner and the front car responds again, that's blocking.

[shwah]

G, I don't know you or anyone involved in the race you have described.

But what you have described to me is racing, not blocking. I can tell you that if it happened to me, I would only be mad at myself for not finding my way around those competitors in the ensuing 20 laps.

Races are not won at the start.

[grjones1]

G, I don't know you or anyone involved in the race you have described.

But what you have described to me is racing, not blocking. I can tell you that if it happened to me, I would only be mad at myself for not finding my way around those competitors in the ensuing 20 laps.

Races are not won at the start.
[/b]

Chris,

I found my way around (through) both of them before turn 1 and finished in front of them (slow as I was "in the twisties"). And had you been there, you would have witnessed a prime example of teamwork "defensive driving." My crew said it was kind of like roller derby tactics. You know when they lock arms to keep the guy behind from skating through.

Anyway, it's water over the dam.

I would agree you can't win the race on the start, but you sure as hell can lose it.

G