Barber Race

[charrbq]

Congratulations to the Alabama Region on a most successful event this past weekend. I'm sure that the weather scared several people away, but that's their decision. I would, however, question the sanity of the Weather Steward and see if there couldn't be a replacement made before the next event.

The Barber staff was friendly and courteous, the parking people were extremely helpful and friendly, everyone should be commended on the work done in some of the most strenuous conditions and situations.

Next year, I'll work on fully functional brakes so that I can run and play with the big boys.

Still had a good time in spite of myself. Thanks for all the hard work, guys.

[BlueStreak]

Glad to hear it went well. Looks like it had a solid IT turnout too.

How did the non IT traffic in the ITB/ITC group drive?

I went west of the weather to MMP for a RallyX, sorry I missed everyone, but I needed to play in the dirt .

I'll catch up at a later race.

[bhudson]

I was the operating steward for the mixed group and, if memory serves me well, everyone played together with no problems even in the rain. It's a great event that deserves an even bigger turnout next year.

Bob Hudson
Atlanta Region

[pballance]

I was at 13 during the rain and at 5 for Sunday's race and for the most part everybody played well

Now them pesky mee-otters got a little crazy and those SPO guys couldn't shake some of their roots and there was a little "shoving" that took place. Nothing bad per say but not the normal.

I had fun and got to meet several of the ITS guys. Unfortunately I met David Plott in a not so good way Saturday afternoon at 13 I hope he can get the car put back together.

I have posted some lousy pictures and videos at
this link http://picasaweb.google.com/ITSa240

Jeff Young had a good day with his Triumph :P

I look forward to being there next year out on track with you.

Paul

[240zdave]

It was good to finally meet you, Paul, although under different circumstances would have been preferable. I wanted to thank you again for all of the help loading up the car after the race. And thanks to Paul and all of the other corner workers for a very busy job well done.

As far as the car, after I figure out how to get it out of the trailer and back into the workshop, Randy Shedd, another great Z-man I met this weekend, is going to help me determine if it is repairable or not. I have another roller that I bought last year to build a replacement car eventually. I have a sick feeling that eventually may be here sooner than I hoped.

I do have a slight (maybe not so slight) bone to pick with the race officials, though. I think it was a bad decision to leave my car and the RX7 that hit me out there against the tire barrier for the remainder of the race. Fortunately, nothing else happened, but if someone else had slid off there, they would have hit the cars instead of the tire barrier, possibly causing unnecessary injury, not to mention further damage to our vehicles. I believe there were several more cars that went off during Saturday's race. I don't know how many of them were in potentially dangerous spots. I do think that pressure to meet the 5:30 deadline may have trumped safety in this case. If they had thrown a full-course yellow to remove the cars, they probably would have had to call the race after the 3rd lap or else it would have encroached on the next race's start time. Of course, I'm more than a little bummed about the outcome of my first Barber race, and I did not talk to the Stewards about it before I left.

[pballance]

Dave,
To get your car out of the trailer try some HF wheel dollies. You already have the suspension strapped up and with the wheel dollies and a floor jack you should be able to get it out without too much trouble. You may have to use some 1/8" hardboard to get the wheels over the seam from the door fo the trailer and onto the ramp.

FWIW, I have another tub that I picked up last week that I will look at more closely and see if it is good enough for you to use if yours doesn't work out.

I won't comment about where your car came to rest. I was a "junior" worker and there were senior people at 14 below us as well. Your point is well taken though. I will say this, your car and the Mazda were the only ones to go off there all day Saturday even with all of the rain. I think we only had 1 or two others go 2 wheels off and continue. Thankfully you and the other driver were ok but I admired your restraint while waiting in the flagstand.

[Joe-Racer]

Here are a couple more..

http://picasaweb.google.com/bschonk/Barber


Overall a great event. The rain worked in my favor..for a change.

[BlueStreak]

I do think that pressure to meet the 5:30 deadline may have trumped safety in this case.
[/b]

Just curious, what is the 5:30 deadline?

[seckerich]

The track had a mandatory stop time of 5:00pm but allowed the region to run long because of the rain. I had a much bigger problem with race control and the stewards and did speak with them. I am glad everyone that went off was ok. That said it was the most drawn out waste of time I have ever seen at a race. 20 minute qualifiers and a 30 minute race (shortened to 11 on Sat) and we still got hosed in group 6 with the checker after 7 laps. Wasted a full hour and a half with lunch break knowing it was a rain event instead of making up some time. Could not fit 5.8 hours of hot track time into 8 hour day? Even with the lap times of the rain races they were only 22-23 minutes long with advertised 14 lap or 30 minute races--we got screwed--period. Drove too far and spent too much money to run 7 laps. Sunday ran well but don't pat yourselfves on the back for what happened Saturday. The excuse I got was the time needed to clean up the track with all the cars off--valid but should have never gotten to that point. Other races had cars to be hauled in and got all their laps.

[wbp]

Yeah, what's with with letting the workers off the 17 corners come in a dry off a bit before their lunch. After all they were just going to get soaked again in the afternoon. And none of them drove any further to work than you did to race. But some Stewards did.

[seckerich]

Yeah, what's with with letting the workers off the 17 corners come in a dry off a bit before their lunch. After all they were just going to get soaked again in the afternoon. And none of them drove any further to work than you did to race. But some Stewards did.
[/b]

Cute smarta-- reply. I know, respect, and have worked with most of those in race control. Has nothing to do with that. Poor time management screwed me out of half a race. The region offers X amount of track time a weekend for X amount of dollars. As the customer I decide if it is worth it. Saturday had just qualifing before lunch and did not start back until just before 1:00. Just 4 hours to run 7 races in the rain. Sunday had lunch at 11:00 and left 5 hours for the same races--get the picture? Poor schedule if all had gone well. Most regions run a practice and a qualifier in the same time frame on tracks with very similar lap times. Trim the qualify time if you need to but leave the races alone. Short of full course caution the race should run the distance after we leave pit road. World class facility and glad I ran there once but will think hard before supporting again.

[wbp]

Sorry about the smarta-- reply, a bit. I guess standing out all day with rain running down my crack may have influenced my attitude.
But to get real. I wasn't in control and know only what I could see (limited by wet glasses and my position) , hear on the radio and read on Mylaps. It seemed Control pushed staying Green about as far as they could at Barber all day (see post by Zsolt above).
After 7 of the rescheduled 11 laps for Group 6 they apparently decided they could stay green no longer. In that case a decision has to be made whether to let the race go the final 4 laps under FCY or to checker. Cleanup aways takes longer with cars on track, especially a wet track. Wrecker guys watch their rear so much of the time I suppose (they learn that on the highways) and they are limited in their use of the track surface. I hate driving around under FCY as many do. So I agree with the early checker, and you don't, and that's OK. On the other hand, they may have just decided it would be fun to screw Steve so let's do that. (Oops, I did it again).

I was in control for the Friday Practice Day and did notice that one of the Rollback crews was the slowest I can remember watching at a race. They were Really Careful! But we still got five 25 minute practice sessions in for every group, against a promise of four. Except I had to shut down the last group 11 minutes early due to the thunder storm.

Are there opportunities to do better next time at Barber? Oh yes.

[240zdave]

Dave,
To get your car out of the trailer try some HF wheel dollies. You already have the suspension strapped up and with the wheel dollies and a floor jack you should be able to get it out without too much trouble. You may have to use some 1/8" hardboard to get the wheels over the seam from the door fo the trailer and onto the ramp.

FWIW, I have another tub that I picked up last week that I will look at more closely and see if it is good enough for you to use if yours doesn't work out.

I won't comment about where your car came to rest. I was a "junior" worker and there were senior people at 14 below us as well. Your point is well taken though. I will say this, your car and the Mazda were the only ones to go off there all day Saturday even with all of the rain. I think we only had 1 or two others go 2 wheels off and continue. Thankfully you and the other driver were ok but I admired your restraint while waiting in the flagstand.
[/b]

Paul,

Good idea. I've got wheel dollies, and I also have an HF transmission jack. I thought of getting the transmission jack under the diff and seeing if that would work. It has 4 casters, but whether it will take the weight is a question. The wheel dollies may be the way to go.

I'll let you know about the tub. I have one I bought last year that I think is pretty good condition. It seemed to be fairly rust free and structurally sound at the time I bought it. We shall see.

[seckerich]

Sorry about the smarta-- reply, a bit. I guess standing out all day with rain running down my crack may have influenced my attitude.
But to get real. I wasn't in control and know only what I could see (limited by wet glasses and my position) , hear on the radio and read on Mylaps. It seemed Control pushed staying Green about as far as they could at Barber all day (see post by Zsolt above).
After 7 of the rescheduled 11 laps for Group 6 they apparently decided they could stay green no longer. In that case a decision has to be made whether to let the race go the final 4 laps under FCY or to checker. Cleanup aways takes longer with cars on track, especially a wet track. Wrecker guys watch their rear so much of the time I suppose (they learn that on the highways) and they are limited in their use of the track surface. I hate driving around under FCY as many do. So I agree with the early checker, and you don't, and that's OK. On the other hand, they may have just decided it would be fun to screw Steve so let's do that. (Oops, I did it again).

I was in control for the Friday Practice Day and did notice that one of the Rollback crews was the slowest I can remember watching at a race. They were Really Careful! But we still got five 25 minute practice sessions in for every group, against a promise of four. Except I had to shut down the last group 11 minutes early due to the thunder storm.

Are there opportunities to do better next time at Barber? Oh yes.
[/b]

Fair enough Bill. Water will do that. :P I appreciate you and all the workers who put on these races. I have worked my fair share this year as well. My problem was not so much the decision to shorten our race further (14 down to 11) but the fact we ended up in the situation that it had to be done. The decision was not done for safety but for lack of time for cleanup. That was from your officials and not my opinion. Qualifing was 20 min (not 25) and ate up more of the day than the races? Group 6 and 7 were 50% of the total entries (and revenue for the region) and deserved better treatment than we got. As I said in my earlier post Sunday went like clockwork and I hope the region learned something for future events.

PS. With Sue as race control she just might have done it to piss me off.

[apexingsupra]

First thanks to everyone that came out to the Barber race. The same people (the stewards) that operate the other races in SEDIV are the same stewards that operated the Barber race. The Ala. region has no control over how many laps a group gets, when the track goes green, etc. etc. So the same very experienced people that run Road Atlanta, Roebling, CMP, or VIR were in Race Control during the race. The region's responsibility is in "production" i.e., making sure there is enough staff (we had 90+), doing all the paddock parking, feeding workers, and doing all the pre-race paperwork. That the region did.

Saturday started less then five minutes after the published time. It rained like hell all day long. I was up in control as Race Admin. for the region (pretty much to make sure the stewards had hot coffee). There were a LOT of cars that went off in the rain. We had both the flatbed and the hook wrecker trucks. But as I saw on several occasions there were more cars disabled then the number of wreckers and so time got burned up taking badly damaged cars to tech and then having to come back out and get yet another car. It was unfortunate but unavoidable. The standard time figured between sessions is 10 minutes which got blown due to conditions. Rain soaked soggy grass hampers vehicle recovery too. The Ala. region has no control over EV services or the wrecker either. I heard one steward say we were the only rain event so far in 07 (don't know how accurate that is for SEDIV). Sunday the track was dry and things were different then. As to going cold we had until 5:15pm per Barber's rules/decision. I think the stewards did the best job that could be done under the conditions and appreciate all the hard work that was done.

Sorry you feel you didn't get your "money's worth".

Barry H.
Ala. Region Admin.

[seckerich]

First thanks to everyone that came out to the Barber race. The same people (the stewards) that operate the other races in SEDIV are the same stewards that operated the Barber race. The Ala. region has no control over how many laps a group gets, when the track goes green, etc. etc. So the same very experienced people that run Road Atlanta, Roebling, CMP, or VIR were in Race Control during the race. The region's responsibility is in "production" i.e., making sure there is enough staff (we had 90+), doing all the paddock parking, feeding workers, and doing all the pre-race paperwork. That the region did.

Saturday started less then five minutes after the published time. It rained like hell all day long. I was up in control as Race Admin. for the region (pretty much to make sure the stewards had hot coffee). There were a LOT of cars that went off in the rain. We had both the flatbed and the hook wrecker trucks. But as I saw on several occasions there were more cars disabled then the number of wreckers and so time got burned up taking badly damaged cars to tech and then having to come back out and get yet another car. It was unfortunate but unavoidable. The standard time figured between sessions is 10 minutes which got blown due to conditions. Rain soaked soggy grass hampers vehicle recovery too. The Ala. region has no control over EV services or the wrecker either. I heard one steward say we were the only rain event so far in 07 (don't know how accurate that is for SEDIV). Sunday the track was dry and things were different then. As to going cold we had until 5:15pm per Barber's rules/decision. I think the stewards did the best job that could be done under the conditions and appreciate all the hard work that was done.

Sorry you feel you didn't get your "money's worth".

Barry H.
Ala. Region Admin.
[/b]

But after calling group 6 at 7 laps we somehow found time to run group 7 full distance with plenty of cars off. Not a moneys worth deal Barry--just a fairness deal. Rain sucks and we should have all had equal time. No need to carry this further on this forum on my side. I spoke to the stewards about my objections at the race and understand how they got to the point they made the decision they did. Enough said. I will be at the mid-year meeting if you want to discuss it further.

[Joe-Racer]

Whats the standard on calling it short and notifying those on course? Show the white, then the checker?
Yes, it's nit-picky.. :P I was timing my approach with the proposed laps and came up short - a hundredth short

[bhudson]

If you mean show a white for last lap, that's not what the white flag is used for in SCCA Club Racing. The white flag has just one meaning - a slow moving racecar or a moving emergency vehicle is on course ahead of you.

The GCR does not require any signal to indicate the last lap.

Once a race has completed half distance, if its found necessary to stop the race, it is considered complete. A more detailed wording is found in the GCR, but I don't have it in front of me to quote the section.

Bob Hudson
Atlanta Region

[JeffYoung]

Some regions (CCR for example) will show a placard with a big "1" on it to indicate one to go. Nice touch, appreciated, and would be something for all regions to look at doing.

[chuck baader]

I was in the shortened group 6 and completely understand why it was shortened. Rain during the group intensified to the point there were large pools of standing water not only on the front straight, but after turn 6 and on the back straight. My car, on full tread Toyos, was hydroplaning in 4 distinct areas of the track...in general, track conditions deteriorated to the point that the race was called, I feel, in the interest of safety. We all got our finishing positions/points, whatever. Bottom line, thats racing. Chuck