LRP announcement

[hd54kh]

There is a similar club not far away and eisier access from Metro New York area. :

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/.../NEWS/707070331

This one is closed to all but members but if you got a couple of hundred grand to spend why share the course. This track has broken ground and I saw the article in Saturdays paper. Here is the club link:

http://www.driveandrace.com/

I'm just starting out and can barely afford tires, SCCA school, towing.......... but lets see 100k, 7.5/year, 100k for the car........ maybe I should have paid more attention in school as a youngster.

Terry
85 GTI VW Cup Car
Still on a novice permit

[gran racing]

Dan, you also need to remember that an ALMS car will respond to the track differently than our IT cars. Although Greg is not fond of LRP and will be vocal about the faults he has with it, there are many others who love the track. It still remains to be my favorite track. And the Runoffs is a fantastic event. Tow 7 hours to attend the Runoffs at LRP? You absolutely should come for that event.

[RSTPerformance]

I really can't afford or justify racing at Lime Rock with the income that I have, however if I could afford it, I would... It is a very fun track to race at, and has probably some of the toughest turns in the country. It would be a shame to see it go away.

It would be great to get someone whom knows how to manage a track run the place... For as long as I can remember the track has been rumored to be mismanaged, and it should be turning huge profits as compaired to other tracks. I am sure that the financial trouble the track is in has a history.

Raymond "I am pissed that it costs so much, but I do have to love the track itself still" Blethen

[jjjanos]

In regards to the track, he noted that the track surface is obviously poor, and in need of resurfacing. He also said that the amount of money required to do this work is "...more capital, more money, than any normal-functioning road course could ever generate."[/b]

Horse hockey. Bollocks. Content suitable for putting on my flowers. Statement full of E. Coli.

Repaving certainly is less expensive than doing the job from bare ground. Summit Point repaved less than 10 years ago. VIR essentially was a ground zero operation. Carolina Motorsports Park from nothing to pavement within the same time frame. Track in Jersey being built. How many additonal tracks have been built in that time? Shoot. Summit Point built a third track without extorting money from users.

A $5 million repaving job financed through a 8% loan over 15 years works calculates to annual debt payments of $584,138 per year. At 270 track days per year, that works out to an increase in daily rental fee of around $2,200 per day.

$5 million cost works out to over $3.2 million per mile to REPAVE and I really doubt the cost is any near that high.

From the city of Staunton VA website - "The cost to pave one lane for one mile is $86,000."

Multiple by 4 for 4 lanes and assume that racing asphalt is 5 times as expensive as the stuff put on city streets - you're at $2.125 million per mile paving. Total cost for 1.53 miles = $3.3 million

200 track days/year = about $3,000 increase in rental
270 track days/year = about $2,200 increase in rental

Bump the interest rate to 10% and you don't impact these number that much.

I certainly can't argue with that. I don't know the details of the finances of this track, but I can't imagine how a road course could generate enough profit to cover these costs.[/b]

See above set of assumptions.

In watching this interview, and reading the press releases, I'd suggest my alternate theory was correct: they have either not been generating enough profit[/b]

Hard to believe given what I have heard about rental rates there.

Me thinks that this is part of the SB Retirement Fund Plan.

[RSTPerformance]

Horse hockey. Bollocks. Content suitable for putting on my flowers. Statement full of E. Coli.

Repaving certainly is less expensive than doing the job from bare ground. Summit Point repaved less than 10 years ago. VIR essentially was a ground zero operation. Carolina Motorsports Park from nothing to pavement within the same time frame. Track in Jersey being built. How many additonal tracks have been built in that time? Shoot. Summit Point built a third track without extorting money from users.

A $5 million repaving job financed through a 8% loan over 15 years works calculates to annual debt payments of $584,138 per year. At 270 track days per year, that works out to an increase in daily rental fee of around $2,200 per day.

$5 million cost works out to over $3.2 million per mile to REPAVE and I really doubt the cost is any near that high.

From the city of Staunton VA website - "The cost to pave one lane for one mile is $86,000."

Multiple by 4 for 4 lanes and assume that racing asphalt is 5 times as expensive as the stuff put on city streets - you're at $2.125 million per mile paving. Total cost for 1.53 miles = $3.3 million

200 track days/year = about $3,000 increase in rental
270 track days/year = about $2,200 increase in rental

Bump the interest rate to 10% and you don't impact these number that much.
See above set of assumptions.
Hard to believe given what I have heard about rental rates there.

Me thinks that this is part of the SB Retirement Fund Plan.
[/b]

Interesting post... Maybe those involved with Palmer can chime in... I would think it would be more similar in reguards to cost.


Raymond


A good revenue source for the track would be to open a dam hotel... How far do people travel to get to a hotel in that area??? Also how many places are booked ireguardless of a race or not??? make a resort with a nice hotel some small shops/restuarants and a pool area... The place will be booked all summer and well into the fall ireguardless of a race or not... And they have PLENTY of space in the upper lot to tear down a those pointless chalets and move stuff around to make it.

Raymond

[Greg Amy]

...there are many others who love the track. It still remains to be my favorite track.[/b]

You always have fond memories of the first girl you kissed...no matter how much of a dog she really was...

[GregM]

There have been many good points raised here. The track has been poorly managed over the years. I find it hard to believe that LRP cannot follow the business model that many other tracks have succeeded with.

As far as hotels and bed and breakfasts I can tell you that there are plenty and not too far away. Since having purchased my property at Lime Rock 5 years ago I have found so many more places to eat and stay that my wife and I found we didnt really know the area at all and I have been going there since I was 8.
Racebrook Lodge Just north of Salisbury in Mass. Here's some places to check out when you come to Town.
Wake Robin Inn in Lakeville
Sharon Motor Lodge
Mountainside Cabins Falls Village
Interlakin Inn
Troutbeck
Inn at Iron Masters
There are places for all budgets.
Food. Well there are so many great places but here's a few
Breakfast & lunch[/b]
Chefrey's between Lakeville and Salisbury across from Ironmasters
The Toy Maker Cafe Falls Village
Mountainside Falls Village
Blackforest Caanan
Dinner[b]
Boathouse
The Woodlands
Pastorale
Troutbeck
and there's so many many more. Again there's something for every price range. Just ask I I can point you in the right direction.

As for developers. Subdivisions don't work up there. People don't buy into them. Watch the local real estate market and you will see. There are many small subdivisions and the land isn't selling in all price ranges. Look at the one on the way to Amenia on Rt 41. Not a single house built in 2 years. Also the burden on the local Town infrastructure would be greatly affected. We can't even find a place for the local Transfer Station and they have been looking for years.

As for the golf idea. The track has a lot of wetlands, part of the reason for a lack of infrastructure. I am down the block and I have wetlands as well. Somehow I don't see anyone letting them polute the local water supply. We are all on well water. I expedite permits for a living and I for one would hire an attorney and fight it tooth and nail. Ask the local people in Bridgehampton if they are happy with the golf course and chemicals .

I wish I could attend lunch tomorrow where he's the guest speaker and talk again with Skip but business will keep me away. I did however just get my private invitation to meet with him about the Lime Rock Club so I guess I will book an appointment and speak with him then.

At least one Greg loves Lime Rock besides me. My sons first word was " racecar " Go figure.

Greg

[Andy Bettencourt]

You always have fond memories of the first girl you kissed...no matter how much of a dog she really was...
[/b]

Most peoples track preference is directly related to the success they have there...having said that, I don't know of many that don't think WGI isn't one of the top 3 in the country. Having heard 1st hand reviews of some of the best from Grand Am drivers, WGI still remains a favorite.

Here is another issue that hasn't been touched on: I am REALLY surprised that the local township has approved ANYTHING in terms of additional brick and mortar. I was always under the impression that the local ordinances and 'contracts' had just as much - or more - to do with the lack of development. I have to wonder if Skip has had some of that relaxed...or if he gets run out of town he gets to keep the money.

It would be nice if the Track Manager would pop on and give us a scoop - he did last year didn't he?

[gran racing]

Summit Point repaved less than 10 years ago.[/b]

Yeah, and the pavement is just great there. My first time there three years ago, I couldn't help but think "now this is some crappy pavement!". Or did they just fail to pave the carousel?

One reason I like LRP so much is since it is a bullring and enjoy working with traffic. There are plenty of tracks where a race quickly becomes a HPDE day, but that will never happen at LRP.

[dj10]

Dan, you also need to remember that an ALMS car will respond to the track differently than our IT cars. Although Greg is not fond of LRP and will be vocal about the faults he has with it, there are many others who love the track. It still remains to be my favorite track. And the Runoffs is a fantastic event. Tow 7 hours to attend the Runoffs at LRP? You absolutely should come for that event. [/b]

Hmmmmm, lets see, Beaver Run 1 hr, Summit Point & Nelson Ledges 2 hrs, Mid Ohio 3 hrs, Watkins Glen 5 hrs VIR and LRP 7 hrs now which one..........

[GregM]

Here is another issue that hasn't been touched on: I am REALLY surprised that the local township has approved ANYTHING in terms of additional brick and mortar. I was always under the impression that the local ordinances and 'contracts' had just as much - or more - to do with the lack of development. I have to wonder if Skip has had some of that relaxed...or if he gets run out of town he gets to keep the money.

It would be nice if the Track Manager would pop on and give us a scoop - he did last year didn't he?
[/b]

Thats why the Race Tower is built up on posts with no real enclosed structure at grade. Its in a 100 year flood plain. Thats why its funny when people think they could just sell it and build houses. Its different than the Bridge. I am still very concerened about the tracks future, mostly based on management.

Track Manager is now a she. Georgia Blades who helped run and grow Skip Barber Racing school. Yeah we got the scoop last year from Steve Potter. Notice he was gone really quick. I got a disturbing letter as a local resident about what the track would like to do without the track ever consulting any of the neighbors, even the track friendly ones. Everyone was angered and because most didn't understand Zoning there were many mis-interpretations of what could happen.
So we had Steve Potter ( Saratoga Auto Museum ? ), Garret Mudd ( went on to SCCA Pro and now CART ) , Michael Johnson , and Mike Rand ( still on staff as a consultant ).

All I hear is complaints about the crappy pavement. Have any of you ever raced Bridgehampton ?? Or Nelson ( before the repave ) ?? We all were just happy to be racing at Bridgehampton and there were no facilities and sand everywhere. No paved or grassy parking area's at all. How about those bathrooms at Nelson or the grass that never gets mowed ? Even when they tell me its mowed I couldn't tell.

And I loved racing at Bridgehampton and Nelson no matter what the facilities are like.

[gran racing]

Dan, it's o.k. to be afraid of the competition the Runoffs bring, no need to make further excuses. :P

[Andy Bettencourt]

It may be as bumpy as it ever has been in the downhill over the past 10 year but there are plenty that find it manageble. Some of us just might be getting too old! :P

[dj10]

Dan, it's o.k. to be afraid of the competition the Runoffs bring, no need to make further excuses. :P [/b]

Bring your best to Watkins Glen and lets see where the bear shits in the buck wheat. From what I'm reading and seeing towing for 7 hrs to a over priced and poorly maintained track to beat my car up for a wood plaque just doesn't seem smart. If I can afford it, I'll be at ARRC, at least they paved Road Atlanta.

[gran racing]

I'll be at the Glen for the 9/15 & 9/16 double - right in the middle of bear hunting season. I'll also be down at the ARRC assuming my car holds together.

Dan, you're being mislead about the condition of LRP and it is an absolute blast to race at. With a long tow anywhere, a $50 difference really isn't significant in the scheme of things.

[robits325is]

From what I'm reading and seeing towing for 7 hrs to a over priced and poorly maintained track to beat my car up for a wood plaque just doesn't seem smart.
[/b]

Don't knock it until you try it.

[GregM]

Have any of you raced Sebring ? Talk about bumpy and poor track conditions .....Please...........

Hows about the sandpaper like quality of Roebling Road ??? Destroy left side tires in practice / qualifying and then destroy a set of tires minimum in the race. I still like racing there because it fun and southern hospitality is great. Oh wait you don't want to tow that far. Your mssing out on one of the best tracks around. Not to mention the great bars in Savannah like Kevin Barry's.

Ever race Portland ?

Complain about track conditions, try first racing across the country and take a look back. Lime Rock looks pretty damn good when compared to the rest.

As Robits325is said " Don't knock it until you try it "

[almracing]

Ever race Portland ?

[/b]

I drove it last Christmas...

The raceway lines the course with Christmas lights/decorations and you get to drive the track. They looked at me funny when I asked what the fastest time of the night was...

[gran racing]

One of my co-workers has been attending several of the "schools" / track days associated with this club. It have been very interesting to hear a different perspective, and learn a bit more about things. Sure sounds like there will be new pavement by the AMLS this summer. Oh, there are in excess of 100 individuals who have signed up for the club. That's pretty impressive.

(Andy, she had some very nice things to say about the Flat Out operation too.)

[lateapex911]

Oh, there are in excess of 100 individuals who have signed up for the club. That's pretty impressive.

[/b]

jeeeeez.......


(I wonder what the "break even" is on this club. I mean, at some point he has to say, sorry, not enough sign ups to make it work. It;s a big nut..repaving, and new clubhouse, new pits, and on and on....)

I too find the whole thing odd when compared to other tracks. Laguna repaved twice in the past two years...Mid Ohio just repaved. Summit just repaved. Lime Rock has some of the highest rental rates in the country, if not THE highest, and and fills a lot of days...where does the money go?????

And, as an aside, whats up with Tamworth? I know things weren't looking too good there. I also know there were some who posted here who invested. If the project is a no go, does the money get returned? Or???